Too large realms (possibility of penalizing bigger realms more?)

[Kain]

Have the game mechanics changed regarding not being able to form massive realms?
I paused my characters 4 years ago and just recently returned but I've read up on what has happend and I see what is going on now.
Before the peasants would complain if the regions you held were too far away from the capital. 3-4 duchies and the realm was an empire.

Now I see plenty of realms where you have to go 6 regions in a single direction to reach the furthest edge (of the realm) from the capital. Sirion city to Karbala city, Domus city to Fontan city, Ibladesh city to Priotness  all on EC. Golden Farrow city to Itau city and Muspelheim city to Linhai on Dwilight, and so on.

The consequences of expanding more than a certain point used to be that you could only uphold a very low taxrate on all regions. A big realm had a taxrate of 10-13% while a very small one had it set to the maximum which was 25%.

Is this still the case (or its eqvivalent) with the "new" liege system?

Personally I think it is more fun where there are less empires and more mediumsized or smaller realms.
Now the small realm is pretty much extinct. Either it has 7+ regions or it is dead.

Does East Continent have a single realm with less than 7 regions? No.
Does Far East have a single realm with less than 7 regions? Yes, but only one and it has 6.
Does Atamara have a single realm with less than 7 regions? Yes, but only one and it has 5.

(I've purposely excluded Beluaterra and Dwlight because Beluaterra is invaded by monsters all the time which makes the conditions unique and dwilight is still in colony phase so I am pretty sure the same thing will happen there when all land is taken)

My point is that the realms are so big in Battlemaster these days. On some islands they always were but still.

What would you think about giving bigger realms more penalities?

- This would give smaller realms a fighting chance
- Encourage the creation of more realms

I guess I am searching for more turnover in general, without undead/monsters. More realms being created, more realms dying.

[Fleugs]

Ibladesh just accidentally swallowed Itorunt.

[LilWolf]

Yes, the larger a realm is the harder it is to maintain the regions.
Yes, the larger you are the lower you'll have to keep your tax rate.
I believe even troop recruitment cost increases the larger you get.
The larger you are the more knights you need and let me tell you, with the lowered player base getting enough isn't easy.
Being a large realm isn't easy by any means.

The problem is, most realms just don't have enough nobles to just go and found a colony. The main realm would fall apart due to lost knights.

[Kain]

Yes, the larger a realm is the harder it is to maintain the regions.
Yes, the larger you are the lower you'll have to keep your tax rate.
I believe even troop recruitment cost increases the larger you get.
The larger you are the more knights you need and let me tell you, with the lowered player base getting enough isn't easy.
Being a large realm isn't easy by any means.

The problem is, most realms just don't have enough nobles to just go and found a colony. The main realm would fall apart due to lost knights.

From what I've seen so far of the liege system, you speak plenty of truth.

So how could more realm creation be encouraged?
From what I've seen, the secessions die in the first month in most cases.

When I started playing on EC in 2005 the continent had 13 realms. Now it is down to 8. And that is including Obsidian Islands who's territory didn't even exist when I started.

Without that adding from Tom, it would only be 7 realms now, about half of 6 years ago.
But back then there were many small to medium realms; Yssaria, Avamar, Coimbra, Eleador, Rancagua and Old Rancagua. Now we only have reasonbly big ones and really big ones.

[Chenier]

I dunno, I feel the size penalties pretty well. I don't think we need them to be stronger.

[Kain]

I dunno, I feel the size penalties pretty well. I don't think we need them to be stronger.

But despite them, these major empires are upheld. Realms like Ibladesh and Sirion are just too large (in a fun to play aspect).

But maybe the penalties is not where the problem lies. Maybe something else that encourages more secessions. Like somehow giving the secessions increased likelihood of surviving.

[Chenier]

But despite them, these major empires are upheld. Realms like Ibladesh and Sirion are just too large (in a fun to play aspect).

But maybe the penalties is not where the problem lies. Maybe something else that encourages more secessions. Like somehow giving the secessions increased likelihood of surviving.

Player culture. They already have enough incentive to break off, but chose not to. There's a limit to how far we should go to force people to act as we think they should. If they don't want to break away, no amount of penalties will change this.

[Fleugs]

But despite them, these major empires are upheld. Realms like Ibladesh and Sirion are just too large (in a fun to play aspect).

Lies! 

But the penalties are hard enough, in my opinion. Hence forth players should be encouraged to create smaller realms, for roleplay reasons. Which at some point I am going to do with Ibladesh, but I need to resolve this rather difficult war first. Our enemies aren't friendly... maybe because I told them I would wipe them out on East Continent.

I've been a big fan of ducal independence for several years now, and the devs always tell me that "it's a plan for the future". But I'm tired of waiting. Too bad. Ducal independence would tear empires to shreds in no time.

[Chenier]

Lies! 

But the penalties are hard enough, in my opinion. Hence forth players should be encouraged to create smaller realms, for roleplay reasons. Which at some point I am going to do with Ibladesh, but I need to resolve this rather difficult war first. Our enemies aren't friendly... maybe because I told them I would wipe them out on East Continent.

I've been a big fan of ducal independence for several years now, and the devs always tell me that "it's a plan for the future". But I'm tired of waiting. Too bad. Ducal independence would tear empires to shreds in no time.

Ducal independence? Isn't that, you know, a secession?

[Fleugs]

Ducal independence? Isn't that, you know, a secession?

No, it would mean that duchies would still wave the flag of a certain realm, but could engage in interducal wars and diplomacy. I.e. the centralized power is heavily reduced and will be replaced by several dukes with more power, that can (but therefore not should) fight amongst one another over regions or whatnot. It would inject a massive amount of fun into huge empires, I believe. I mean, imagine you would actually be fighting for your /duke/ instead of for your realm. Much more accurate, too. Medieval nobility didn't fight for their kingdom. They fought for their liege. That bond is not enough stressed in Battlemaster.

[fodder]

as someone said above.. if you have intra-realm conflict all this is moot. another way of thinking about it is... lots of smaller realms based on duchy rather than kingdom.

[Chenier]

No, it would mean that duchies would still wave the flag of a certain realm, but could engage in interducal wars and diplomacy. I.e. the centralized power is heavily reduced and will be replaced by several dukes with more power, that can (but therefore not should) fight amongst one another over regions or whatnot. It would inject a massive amount of fun into huge empires, I believe. I mean, imagine you would actually be fighting for your /duke/ instead of for your realm. Much more accurate, too. Medieval nobility didn't fight for their kingdom. They fought for their liege. That bond is not enough stressed in Battlemaster.

Declare a secession and then have similar-looking flags? Agree to a supra-national government system? Wish granted?

[Fleugs]

Declare a secession and then have similar-looking flags? Agree to a supra-national government system? Wish granted?

Something like that, yes. I was going to suggest it to Ibladesh using the Church as the glue for the "empire". In essence the highest power would still be located in the city of Ibladesh (having the rest of the dukes as "sub-kings"), but the dukes would have their own realm to run. This would allow for many more positions opening up (requiring less effort), thus probably attracting more players. Next to that, taxes can be increased by an average of 5% without problem.

The problem is that multiple guilds would need to be established to make sure that the current message groups don't go lost. You really don't want 5 generals to cooperate in a mutual war...

[De-Legro]

If Arcaea ever finds itself NOT in a war, there are plans for the realm to split. The increased recruitment cost and difficulty with our regions has been a right pain for quite a while. This is also the reason the two Luarian realms on Dwilight are discussion staying separate.

[Indirik]

The problem is that multiple guilds would need to be established to make sure that the current message groups don't go lost. You really don't want 5 generals to cooperate in a mutual war...

I personally despise the idea of duchies warring against duchies in the same realm. It would essentially destroys the last vestiges of team play in BattleMaster. If you want to fight another duchy, then one of you two should secede and proceed to get to fighting.

Having said that, the loss of the message channel to be able to talk to each other is definitely a hindrance in what you're trying to do. Then again, if you're fighting each other, that common message channel will just be filled with so much crap, it will be intolerable. We had that happen in SA. Trust me, *not* having free access for both sides of a war to send each other messages at will is a rather large boon.