Too large realms (possibility of penalizing bigger realms more?)

[Indirik]

You had plenty of opportunities to break up Ibladesh between the fall of Itorunt and the start of the most recent war. Why didn't you take advantage of the opportunities then?

I'm being serious here. If you think that realms need to break up into smaller ones, then there needs to be some incentive. And in order to do that, we need to find out why realms are not breaking up. So, when you had the opportunity to break Ibladesh into smaller realms, why didn't you?

[Kain]

Yeah, right, I'll do it in the middle of a war. Should be a walkover for Caligus and Perdan then.

You do realize the reason for the continuation of the war is the size of Ibladesh? Perdan and Caligus probably won't stop until Ibladesh is down to reasonble size.

So breaking Ibaldesh up might actually shorten the war by a lot. Now if Ibladesh will be alive afterwards, that I don't know. The new realm(s) probably will be though

[Fleugs]

A valid question.

First of all, I had been talking about these ideas on irc before. When I asked about ducal independence, I was told that it would eventually get implemented. So hence why I was waiting. This, however, before I became ruler of Ibladesh. Back then I was already the judge of Ibladesh... but judges can't make those decisions, now can they?

Secondly, albeit Itorunt being conquered, the regions were in such a horrible shape that it took them nearly a year to recover (as in, they have recovered by now - but these are recent events). Next to that I was duke of Semall myself, and proposing the whole idea as a duke might come over wrong... although, clearly, this one does too.

Thirdly, another goal of mine was to turn Ibladesh into a more rigid Theocracy where religion would play a central role. I believe that has now been achieved, and hence there's room for the next step. We have managed to convert all of our regions and expand all of our necessary temples.

[Indirik]

Ducal diplomacy/independence has been on the *very* long range radar for quite some time. It has serious problems, both in balance and implementation. I wouldn't even think about holding off any IG plans while waiting for it. In fact, I don't think I'd hold off any IG plans waiting for any particular coding feature to implemented. Things are always too uncertain to ever count on anything.

Beyond that, though, what kind of incentives do you think would work to help break up these large realms, assuming that it is determined that large realms are a problem? (Of which I am by no means convinced.)

[Fleugs]

Beyond that, though, what kind of incentives do you think would work to help break up these large realms, assuming that it is determined that large realms are a problem? (Of which I am by no means convinced.)

I don't know. Mine would be near to purely a roleplay incentive. I think it would contribute a lot to the day-to-day aspect of Battlemaster for all characters involved. Okay, most likely no more epic huge battles... but there's still enough fun, honour and prestige left in two minor armies fighting one another. Besides that it is mostly just something I wish to experiment with: see how it goes. I expect that eventually all will turn back into one realm again, because at a given point, a certain character (~player) decides he wants all the power again.

Nor do I believe that big realms are a problem. I can imagine that it's a bummer if they decide to fight you, but big realms have a tendency of collecting a lot of enemies real fast, so that shouldn't be too big an issue. I can imagine though that being in a big realm is a bit... empty, for some people. I mean, you're one of a hundred, right? Who cares what you think. And then they just go in "order-reading" mode, which I don't like.

[Kain]

Beyond that, though, what kind of incentives do you think would work to help break up these large realms, assuming that it is determined that large realms are a problem? (Of which I am by no means convinced.)

Large realms are sometimes a problem, but maybe not as much as the lack of small realms.

We've already talked about how smaller realms makes you feel more involved, and that is why smaller realms are great in a "player fun perspective".

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Hm, is that really the case? Asylon, Barca, D'Hara, Aurvandil, Madina, Libero Empire, are those actually fun?

[Telrunya]

D'Hara has been tons of fun

[Fleugs]

I think all of Dwilight is just iffy. Boring players there.

[Kain]

Hm, is that really the case? Asylon, Barca, D'Hara, Aurvandil, Madina, Libero Empire, are those actually fun?

I think you've been accostomed to the bm-standard of what a small realm is. When I'm saying small realm, I mean 1-5 regions or so.
If it has 7 like Medina and D´Hara or 10 like Libero Empire, it is not small, more like medium.
13+ is large. 20+ is huge empires. 25+ is insane.

You are correct that Asylon, Barca and Aurvandil are small realms (in my opinion) but I am mostly speaking about EC, FEI and Atamara now since Dwilight and Beluaterra has special conditions (all the monsters/undead and still colonizing).

[songqu88@gmail.com]

So...the backwater place called Obsidian Islands? The broken Fontan? The breaking SoA? I might not be among the inner circle (or even in the outer circle) for those realms, but the feeling I'm getting is that OI is a boring as all heck place that barely has any money to go around (But it's as small as small can get on EC), and Fontan is licking its wounds and stuff. Maybe SoA is a bit better because they can actually fight for real, though they aren't exactly "small" either since they have two duchies. Hey, neither is Fontan, because they also have 2 duchies now! Ok, so OI. Yeah, for some reason I don't think I would ever want to recommend anyone to play there.

[Fleugs]

Dude, OI is just sitting on a pile of dump, not land. It's not even a decent example.

[Kain]

So...the backwater place called Obsidian Islands? The broken Fontan? The breaking SoA? I might not be among the inner circle (or even in the outer circle) for those realms, but the feeling I'm getting is that OI is a boring as all heck place that barely has any money to go around (But it's as small as small can get on EC), and Fontan is licking its wounds and stuff. Maybe SoA is a bit better because they can actually fight for real, though they aren't exactly "small" either since they have two duchies. Hey, neither is Fontan, because they also have 2 duchies now! Ok, so OI. Yeah, for some reason I don't think I would ever want to recommend anyone to play there.

I agree, bad example.

A medium or big realm is not necessarily militarily strong all the time. Fontan is not strong because their regions are messed up. Krimml has 3500 people living in it, how messed up is that for a city? I also think morale sucks in a realm where everything goes downhill.

A realm can have many regions but still be poor because the regions they hold are monetarily crap. OI is a perfect example of crappy regions indeed.

[Indirik]

Hey, neither is Fontan, because they also have 2 duchies now!

Only temporarily.

Fontan is a ghost town. If it ever recovers, it will take months, and months. I doubt it will be an interesting place to be, except for those interested in internal politics, for quite some time.

[Stue (DC)]

no matter how large realms became large, their size proves some competence, despite many limitations large realms have.

putting more pressure on them would be punishment for that competence. people miss incentive anyhow, and what motivation would they find knowing that they are severely limited in expansion.

there is, however, another issue, big issue with large realms - the fact that so many realms with 80-100 nobles never ever have any internal struggles.

the larger the realm, the more possibility for internal struggles and tension? yes that could be normally expected and that could be natural self-regulation of realm size.

but that does not happen, which is really unnatural and bad. put 80 good friends together for some time, and some sparkles would always happen in rl, and we have absolute harmony in many or almost all large realms. that is somthing fishy... related to other posts and subjects so i would not elaborate it much here, in short that shows how game mechanics undesirably mitigates tensions (while, sadly, trying to recreate it at the same time thorough "too much peace").