Monster Problems

[Vita`]

No. Because previous TMP resulted in realms never being able to go to war again, and just changing from morale drops to rogue TOs wont be any different if they're based directly on being at war or not. Rogue spawns drop as human density improves, leaving realms available for war once again.

But people really need to move on from the idea that a map should be fully occupied.

[Zakilevo]

No. Because previous TMP resulted in realms never being able to go to war again, and just changing from morale drops to rogue TOs wont be any different if they're based directly on being at war or not. Rogue spawns drop as human density improves, leaving realms available for war once again.

But people really need to move on from the idea that a map should be fully occupied.

Definitely. When fully occupied, Dwilight just turned into another EC or Atamara. Might as well keep the frontier feeling going.

[Gabanus family]

Only problem becomes if say Madina is succesfull in warding off the monsters and Fissoa is not, they'll be entirely cut off from the other realms.

[BarticaBoat]

But people really need to move on from the idea that a map should be fully occupied.

This x a million. Like how in ec I want Xavax to purge Minas nova and leave the lands rogue.

[Zakilevo]

Only problem becomes if say Madina is succesfull in warding off the monsters and Fissoa is not, they'll be entirely cut off from the other realms.

That is something Madina will have to deal with. From the looks of it, monsters will eventually overwhelm Fissoa.

[Ketchum]

Yea, small realms can't really compete with the monster/undead avalanches that tend to form up, which is unfortunate since any colonization efforts are doomed to fail given the ferocity of the rogues.

I think one of the biggest issues is that you can't effectively kill the monsters. Depending on the initial size of the group, they'll get down to 10 monsters and then retreat, and then they'll rally and be beaten down to 5 monsters but still remain. Meanwhile you have another 15k CS worth of fresh monsters coming in from the neighboring rogue region which just spits them out like weeds. Sometimes this can be solved by hunting them, but other times they'll instantly rally so you can't touch them.

As for the amount of monsters in the East, you're actually getting a lot of them that are migrating from the West. We've seen the monsters on Western Dwi using the northern rogue regions just to get to Yggdramir, and then they continue going East ignoring us. I am pretty sure I sent out a letter at one point to the General list about the issue, not sure if anyone actually paid attention to it.

Saw your message as my character is a General, but my character realm Morek is really too small to fight against anything rogue. We already lost many battles against rogue monsters in Nimh, my character seriously wounded out cold too. Trying to send army to help Arnor fight against rogue monsters, end up our own capital become rogue. Now I wondering our rogue militia who formerly is Morek militia, did we forget pay them or something?
Even Morek got receive help request from other realm to help fight against monster, my character dare not promise anything anymore, since we unable to fight monsters, lest human realm. That's why I say Monster is number one enemy and human realm is a close second. There is no doubt about that

Yes. Bore them into declaring war.

It didn't work before, why would it work now?

Religions are the key here. Trigger that in game

From what I see, the only way for war is through religions, a crusade of some sort. Maybe have those who open Portal to Roleplay about Religions stuff, enhancing their religion image or something.

And monsters, still will only have the few human realms allied together to fight monsters. Monsters do not really help here

Definitely. When fully occupied, Dwilight just turned into another EC or Atamara. Might as well keep the frontier feeling going.

Not fully occupied either Dwilight. Hear rogue just overtake the west lands from Avernus before they even secured it well. Probably that is another one of many reasons that drive rogue force to attack us further inland.

[Victor C]

I think the rouges are actually a good thing. The purpose is to horde us together...

If a realm gets isolated, unfortunately... That's just greed keeping you there. You can walk to the other human realms and join the fun anytime. If not, you do have the choice to die there alone and join later after everything has been established... Though, it'llbe hard to influence anything then.

Internal conflicts are especially interesting. Those will increase more and more as players start compiling together. Religion cannot thrive with many small realms spread out effectively. For diplomacy becomes an issue. Meanwhile if the religions are concentrated within a few realms, I feel there's still hope to see more chance of a religious war.

It sucks that your realm is getting destroyed, but delaying it will only keep everyone in the state they're currently in. This will not inspire LESS rouges, but instead I'd personally add MORE rouges to ensure that the plan continues.

The map is so big, we really don't need all that space. Journeys to the lost land can always be a good roleplaying event realms do. It'll be like a Dystopian story.

[Bronnen]

Someone is trying to recruit followers to his religion so that there is religious war on the continent, force the SA and ESA to fight or die.

But apparently people are more content with just sitting in the SA and ESA and doing nothing, or joining no religions because the religions do nothing.

[Feylonis]

The thing that no one talks about is that relentless rogue attacks also force realms to focus on those, rather than engaging war against other (player) realms. Swordfell lost/is losing a number of its regions due to focusing on the Westfold war. D'Hara hasn't engaged in an actual war (other than the token 'invasion' against LB).

Thinking "rogues force everyone to clump togther" is a novel idea, but guess what -- when you keep encouraging people to just move to a more inland realm, then the outer realms fall, and the rogue border simply pushes forward.

Yes, it's ideal for there to be smaller, more mobile realms that are constantly warring against each other. But forcing this through large rogue groups hinders the latter part of the ideal -- smaller, mobile realms are forced to deal with these large rogue groups rather than warring each other.

[Zakilevo]

That is laughable I think. When the whole Dwilight was occupied, it just turned into another Atamara. Boredom never ended.

The whole point of rogues pushing people in is to destroy outer realms so we get more inner realms. Inner realms probably should attack outer realms to speed up the process.

One thing I do not like about this monster invasion is how it is attacking all the realms. It should focus on crushing outer realms so we don't get just huge rogue territories in the center of human realms when the invasion finally stops.

[byrdcr9]

I have to agree with Feylonis. I find it odd that the Devs consider utilizing aggressive NPCs a viable solution to forcing realms to go to war.

The Devs do seem to understand that humans are risk-averse and that detracts from the fun of the game. They also seem to understand that character density is the solution to the problem. However, I feel that they are missing the mark by trying to use NPCs to create that density. Human population density is controlled by passive, geographic factors; not aggressive waves of invaders. Historically, when you get external population pressure, the people in the area either die or move somewhere else (i.e. German invasions of Ancient Europe, Hunnic invasions after that, Mongols after that, Indo-Aryans before any of them). Whereas when you limit land as a resource, people will begin to fight over it (i.e. Ancient Mesopotamia and the Levant, Egypt, Scandinavia sort-of, Scotland, etc...). Though land doesn't have to be the only resource in this case.

The problem I see with Dwilight is that the cities are spaced too far apart for anything to be done about it. Dwilight is massive, and there are few reasonable ways to limit people's ability to expand only at the expense of human realms. As I look at the map, only 3 out of 11 realms are trapped in by human realms and, guess what, the only human-human war is between one of those realms and Swordfell. All the other realms don't need to go to war to expand their power base, they just need to kick out a few resident monsters and their problem is solved.

I think the best solution in this case would be to adjust the statistics of the regions so that no single city can support itself with only its surrounding regions. Make it so that an exorbitant amount of food is required to sustain a realm. Then, make it very easy to maintain a region once it is taken. Ergo, no realm will be able to sustain its cities without taking land from every available source, including human realms.

Just some thoughts.

[Feylonis]

That is laughable I think. When the whole Dwilight was occupied, it just turned into another Atamara. Boredom never ended.

The whole point of rogues pushing people in is to destroy outer realms so we get more inner realms. Inner realms probably should attack outer realms to speed up the process.

One thing I do not like about this monster invasion is how it is attacking all the realms. It should focus on crushing outer realms so we don't get just huge rogue territories in the center of human realms when the invasion finally stops.

And when all the 'outer realms' are destroyed, the 'inner realms' will become the new border lands. We've kept pushing back the border -- first, all realms on the western half went rogue. Now we're talking about pushing it further east? What's the point of setting up Westgard, then, if we just want to concentrate all the players on the easternmost edge of Dwilight?

[Sacha]

Those are some pretty good points.

I feel like control of non-fortified regions ought to me more fluid. Right now takeovers are just a bunch of either meaningless violence where even the whitest of knights suddenly turn into violent hooligans, or endless freedom celebrations that set regions awash in ale for a week. And if the invaders aren't taking over, they're usually just burning things to the ground, slaughtering hundreds of peasants in the process. War is simply too devastating to be on the losing side, so most realms won't risk it unless victory is all but assured. Other realms just simply can't afford to take much land from their neighbors. Realms should be able to benefit from occupying land without actually taking it over or looting it to cinders.

[Feylonis]

The problems of Dwilight are the problems of most other BM continents: geographically, too large or too long. EC's basically a strip of diagonal land. Perdan and Sirion, on opposite ends of that stick, have showcased their inherent advantage (I mean, they've been around every since way way way way back). Or take Atamara and (somewhat modified) Beluaterra. Realm capitals can take literal days to reach a border/battle area, especially if your neighbors are your friends and your enemies are all the way in Irombro while you're in Firbalt or something.

War Island I think is a very good example of a nicely laid out geography. Compact, each capital somewhat equidistant from each other. Refit and recruit times are fairly short. The way Dwilight was shrunk, it left just the western eastern half that ended up combining the too-linear and too-large problems of EC and Atamara/Beluaterra.

[jaune]

What annoys me most... There is only 1 "normal" continent with "normal" speed and normal diplomacy and interaction with other players.

And now that you can have only 1 char per continent, we are kind of forced to play these freaky continents too

I want Atamara back