Monster Problems

[DeVerci]

Yes. Monsters are trying to push people closer. I can see some problems with this though like Fissoa and Madina case. Fissoa will probably die at some point and Madina will be completely alone. Madina will probably fall eventually but that will take a long time.

So Madina's case, they will probably never be able to interact with other realms and fight monsters until they lose.

Why was Westgard created then? We are pretty much Madina/Fissoa of the north-west.

[Zakilevo]

Why was Westgard created then? We are pretty much Madina/Fissoa of the north-west.

To give Atamarans a realm of their own. Being able to keep it is another matter. You guys can't probably TO northern regions and slowly relocate north of Arnor.

[Feylonis]

I don't know, maybe the people who thing the rogue issue is okay maybe play in middle realms who don't actually have to deal with it? Here's the problem:

We start with realms Z-A-B-C-D. Z is the rogue lands, produces 5 rogue armies. Realms A-B-C-D can produce 2 armies each because of income constraints and player densities. Rogues attack realm A, but B-C-D can play PvP with one another because The Threat is not close to them.

Realm A falls. Realm A players move to Realm B, increasing Realm B's capability to raise 3 armies because of higher player density. Income constraints remain the same. However, Rogue Z now has former Realm A's lands to raise armies in. They can now get 7 armies. Realm B begins to deal with Rogue Z, and can no longer play with Realms C-D.

Realm B falls. Players move to Realm C, bumping their armies up to 5 because they now have former A and B players. However, Rogue Z can now raise 9 armies because it has its own original Z, and former A and B lands, to spawn in. Realm C has to deal with a more powerful Rogue Z.

All the while, Realm D is shouting at all the other people "But this is good, you can still war with us! Kekekeke."

This is the crux of the problem. Rogues were meant to improve the player density of Dwilight and encourage more realms to interact with one another. In practice, though, it's a poor solution. Realms become focused on dealing with the rogues rather than with each other.

And for those saying "Go to EC for PvP", I say to you: go to Beluaterra for PvE. See? It's an annoying argument to make.

[Zakilevo]

That will happen until you reach the 'optimal' level. We will probably reach that level once Madina plus Arnor die. If those realms don't die, then monsters will continue to hit them harder and harder until they break. Don't forget other realms that border monsters like Luria and Westgard. The same thing will happen to these realms until they die. Once enough realms die, people will be force to migrate. The only problem with this method is people quitting. If people rage quit en mass, the density will not rise thus forcing monsters to fight and kill more realms. You can only lose with this scenario. The best solution at this point is to abandon outer realms quickly and move inland.

[Feylonis]

Maybe it wasn't clear. Abandoning "outer realms" will just make the "inner realms" the new "outer realms".

Z-A-B-C-D. Abandoning A and B won't result in Z---C-D. It will result in Z-Z-Z-C-D. It is a failing solution.

[Zakilevo]

Maybe it wasn't clear. Abandoning "outer realms" will just make the "inner realms" the new "outer realms".

Z-A-B-C-D. Abandoning A and B won't result in Z---C-D. It will result in Z-Z-Z-C-D. It is a failing solution.

Maybe I wasn't clear as well. Abandoning outer realms will make monsters stop. To reach that optimal density, some realms go to go. To make the continent less like Riombara on BT, you need to move to realms that are closer to the center. Once enough realms die, monsters will stop.

3 is the magic number. 94 regions occupied but only 180 characters. 30 or so regions need to be lost. Guess which two realms will make that happen. Losing two biggest realms on Dwilight will make that happen.

Once Fissoa falls, Madina will fall faster. Plus with the coming archer nerf Anaris mentioned, it will make things more difficult for realms to hide behind walls and stop monsters as easily as now. If I were you, I'd start talking to inner realms. There are some inner realms with a spare city. Maybe you can start again.

[Zappy99]

Maybe I wasn't clear as well. Abandoning outer realms will make monsters stop. To reach that optimal density, some realms go to go. To make the continent less like Riombara on BT, you need to move to realms that are closer to the center. Once enough realms die, monsters will stop.

3 is the magic number. 94 regions occupied but only 180 characters. 30 or so regions need to be lost. Guess which two realms will make that happen. Losing two biggest realms on Dwilight will make that happen.

Once Fissoa falls, Madina will fall faster. Plus with the coming archer nerf Anaris mentioned, it will make things more difficult for realms to hide behind walls and stop monsters as easily as now. If I were you, I'd start talking to inner realms. There are some inner realms with a spare city. Maybe you can start again.

That may sound like a good idea, but we're already haemorrhaging players in Dwilight. When Madina and Arnor fall, our population will be even lower, which means even more regions to let go of. We're certainly not gonna increase our population in a way that will actually allow us to expand any time soon, which means we'll be stuck playing in this little tiny corner of Dwilight. Also, if you wanted to increase our density, why in the world did you have Westgard settle in the western island? Also, an archer nerf? Seriously? I have no words.

Here's a solution: Lower the density requirements a little. A density of 2 or 2,5 is enough to have dynamic realm conflict, while still allowing us to actually have decently sized realms.

[Zakilevo]

I think it is currently around 3. To be honest, 2~2.5 sounds logical for now.

As for archer nerf, archers are currently too popular due to it being too strong. You can crush infantry before they even get near your archers. They obviosuly won't be nerfed to the oblivion. If you've faced archers on War Island or EC, you will know Rear Infantry Middle Archer is way too popular. People don't understand how to deal with it and it isn't easy to deal with it either.

[JDodger]

i really dont understand the logic behind the density argument. if you abandon realms/regions, assuming players stay and go elsewhere, your density in a given realm goes up but overall player density doesn't change. plus you then end up with more rogue regions which spawn way more monsters. add the fact that when a realm goes under you usually lose some players on that continent at least temporarily, making density even less.

imo this monster thing is snowballing into an impossible situation. all you have to do is look at fissoa to see how bad it is. i think they are down to two regions now. so you now have massive rogue areas between luria and swordfell and luria and fissoa just churning out monster hordes.

i don't get the logic on this. devs are punishing players for low density when the players can literally do nothing about it except keep playing, which is becoming harder and harder in certain realms.

[Zakilevo]

Nobody said it was the best idea.

[Sacha]

Well we are saying it was a bad idea. It hasn't achieved its goal, quite the contrary. Realm interaction has dropped even further than it already was. Luria would have been warring by now, if we didn't have bi-weekly monster invasions of 10-15k CS to deal with. So the way I see it the devs give us two options, fighting to retain those lands and increasing monster spawns there, or leaving the regions to go rogue, increasing monster spawns there. Either way we just end up with more monsters.

[Zakilevo]

Or you can join other realms. Or you can try negotiating with realms with multiple cities to move more inland. If you can't hold your current regions, might as well abandon it and look for a new place.

I am not a big fan of this gradual push from monsters. If I were a dev, I would have straight up drawn a line. Everything under the line would have been given 2 months to get the hell out. Then I'd bulldoze the area.

Good that I am not in charge.

So what do you think is the good way to deal with the current situation? Realms to need to lose regions. That won't change. There are too many regions held by players. What would you suggest to reduce it and make realms move closer to each other?

[GundamMerc]

Or you can join other realms. Or you can try negotiating with realms with multiple cities to move more inland. If you can't hold your current regions, might as well abandon it and look for a new place.

I am not a big fan of this gradual push from monsters. If I were a dev, I would have straight up drawn a line. Everything under the line would have been given 2 months to get the hell out. Then I'd bulldoze the area.

Good that I am not in charge.

So what do you think is the good way to deal with the current situation? Realms to need to lose regions. That won't change. There are too many regions held by players. What would you suggest to reduce it and make realms move closer to each other?

Zakky, you realize that you just said you'd do the whole thing that ruined Dwilight in the first place. You seem to be blind to the issues here and quick to pass the blame onto the players. We can't just keep shrinking the land area forever you know, eventually we'd get to the point where the game mechanics no longer work as designed and interaction ceases. If you pack in the realms too closely, then it becomes a one-way political track where we get a situation like Far East where all the countries are either on one side or the other, diplomacy becomes overly simplistic and predictable, and Battlemaster ceases to be anything but a game where a continent needs resets after a certain amount of time because a realm has "won" the continent.

[Zakilevo]

If refreshing an island will make things better, I don't mind having resets.

People seem to want the old way of letting people conquer everything. 10 people running a 30 region realm is not going to happen again.

Well if Dwilight continues to shrink then maybe it is a good time to close it and be done with it. I know at least one person will be very happy about it. Tom.

[GundamMerc]

If refreshing an island will make things better, I don't mind having resets.

People seem to want the old way of letting people conquer everything. 10 people running a 30 region realm is not going to happen again.

Well if Dwilight continues to shrink then maybe it is a good time to close it and be done with it. I know at least one person will be very happy about it. Tom.

Tom is a human being. While I respect him for bringing this game to us and all he's done, I've long completely disagreed with his notion that Dwilight was a "mistake".