Author Topic: Monster Problems  (Read 125039 times)

Zakilevo

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #210: November 22, 2016, 03:31:29 AM »
Time to run boys. Time to find a new home :o

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Sharpspeare

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"I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious" ~ Vince Lombardi

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Beldragos

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #214: November 22, 2016, 06:24:22 AM »
Well, Madina has been fighting and losing regions to these trolls for years.  We defeat a wave and then try to expand.  Get get a region or two and then more hordes arrive.  There is not enough time to build up a region so it will support anyone other than the Lord financially and then the hordes start rolling in.  Candiels has been fighting the hordes for weeks and finally had her outermost wall worn down.  I check every day and never get to option to repair because of needing two days (4 turns) without attacks to be able to send out workmen.  I can assure you we have not had any time at all.

It is very frustration to be fighting this long and see there is no interest in the game mods to assisting the frustrated players who cannot engage in the political aspect of the game because of unreasonable mobs in the west.  The attitudes from players who sit in the east and never experienced what it is like is equally frustrating.  Wee have had players move their characters away and even quit because of the situation. 

It has been said the Hordes have been taken care of but they are still here.  It has been said they have been nerfed but it only has been for those in the east who only offer snide comments.  Realms are falling from the monsters in a game that is supposed to be a political game between realms.  Where are the massive armies of trolls in the Medieval times, the reference to the SMA that is enforced on players and their characters.  You cannot claim the armies are Huns or some other human rogue agents because the bounties for the regions list "The Monster" and "The Undead" as categories to place funds.

I was here for the initial conquest of western Dwilight as a member of Caerwyn back in 2004 and the beasts were bad but nowhere as bad as it is now.  We knew we could eventually beat them back and once we were able to establish a foothold we attracted colonist and created Asylon.  It took a long time to do this because of the beasts but we were able to do so eventually.  Terran and Barca advanced in their area and even made a loose alliance with the Zuma for food and stuff.

When it happened, the Ice Age was utterly ridiculous, it felt absolutely artificial at the time and everything seems to be done to keep humans out of the west.  Practically overnight the entire west side of the continent was wiped out.  Candiels held the longest, nearly a year until it fell to a horde of over 98K CS.  At the time it felt like the Mods were behind that horde because other things seemed to happen in the region that only affected Candiels.  I won't go into those because supposedly they were addressed through the many bug reports even though nothing changed.

Now that the ice receded, we were told we could reclaim the lands lost before.  Madina set itself up to be a launching point for colonies in the west and attracted a number of characters from the sinking islands.    Several have left or simply quit because of the way the gameplay has been manipulated. 

It was stated Madina seems to like the hordes.

We do not.

We are sick of throwing our gold into armies and feeding them to the trolls.  We want to be able to expand and set up colonies like in the old days and the promises by the mods when the ice receded made it sound like we could do this but the artificially feeling limits by the mobs are ruining the feel of the game.

The many complaints fall on deaf ears because it has been made plainly clear the game masters will do nothing about the issues raised by the original poster.  He grew frustrated and quit the game, an example of how we all feel who have to deal with this issue each and every day.  I have contemplated leaving many times in the past and have nearly done so because this makes the game NOT FUN. 

Many people said we can move.  I do not see you moving to the so called frontier areas to see what it is like here. 

Many of us were here before the rules of the game were changed.  As it has been stated and seemingly ignored, the players are getting frustrated by endless hordes.  Tactics were tried and tossed aside because they do not work.  The hordes can TO a region in half a dozen turns, much faster than humans can and when we retake them, we have to start from scratch rebuilding them.  Once the lands seem to be getting productive again here comes another 20K swarm to destroy everything we have worked hard for.  Candiels is currently fighting about 15K swarm and losing walls. 

If something is not done about this aspect of the game it will continue to drive out players.  It is basic psychology. 

If you keep denying the reward of hard work then nobody will want to try.

This is why you are losing your player base.

Beldragos Family:  Baal Zephon (Madina), Morganna - Adv (Madina), Atrox - Adv (Assassins), Galvenor (Retired), Mephista (Lukon), Luci (Sirion)

Zakilevo

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #215: November 22, 2016, 07:09:38 AM »
You are not suppose to fight it though. You are supposed to pack your things and move somewhere or crush other realms for your own survival. It was stated, monsters will continue to swarm realms until noble to region ratio becomes 2~3 to 1. If I remember correctly, it is around 3 meaning unless we go down to 65 regions, monsters will hit realms hard. At the moment players control 107 or so regions so players need to lose about 42 regions.

This is why you do not want to see other realms expand as their expansion will cause more pressure on other fronts.

If I were Madinans, I would head north and abandon the current lands. You won't last long now Port Raviel is gone. Monsters will pour into Madina City as well from Port Raviel and once you have to deal with another front, you won't last long. So start planning your next moves. You have more time than realms that were lost to the ice age.

When realms only had 90 regions, monsters weren't as bad as now but people kept expanding and now hordes are pissed. How unfortunate.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 11:01:39 AM by Zakky »

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #216: November 22, 2016, 09:45:29 AM »
You are not supposed to fight it though. You are supposed to pack your things and move somewhere or crush other realms for your own survival. It was stated, monsters will continue to swarm realms until noble to region ratio becomes 2~3 to 1. If I remember correctly, it is around 3 meaning unless we go down to 65 regions, monsters will hit realms hard. At the moment players control 107 or so regions so players need to lose about 42 regions.

This is why you do not want to see other realms expand as their expansion will cause more pressure on other fronts.

If I were Madinans, I would head north and abandon the current lands. You won't last long now Port Raviel is gone. Monsters will pour into Madina City as well from Port Raviel and once you have to deal with another front, you won't last long. So start planning your next moves. You have more time than realms that were lost to the ice age.

When realms only had 90 regions, monsters weren't as bad as now but people kept expanding and now hordes are pissed. How unfortunate.

The problem is that the rogues go through a limited amount of choke points meaning their attacks are concentrated on a few regions, preventing the rogues from going further.
Only if the choke points are breached (which are usually several after each other), these monsters can attack the eastern realms.

Another problem is that this process takes to long and cause a loss of nobles, which goes quicker then the loss of regions.

If somehow the monsters would hit everywhere almost equally, the process would speed up , regions would be lost quicker and the rogues would reside more quickly, so the players can go back playing against each other again, before they decide to leave.

If this can't be done by just the existing code of rogue activity, then perhaps its time for a proper human controlled rogue invasion like in Beluaterra.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 09:48:55 AM by Nosferatus »
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Zakilevo

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #217: November 22, 2016, 11:07:11 AM »
Monsters cannot hit equally. They are not smart enough. You can predict which region will get attacked by more monsters however by looking at how many regions are connected to your region. If your regoin is connected to more regions, you will see more monsters being funneled into your region.

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #218: November 22, 2016, 11:47:33 AM »
Monsters cannot hit equally. They are not smart enough. You can predict which region will get attacked by more monsters however by looking at how many regions are connected to your region. If your regoin is connected to more regions, you will see more monsters being funneled into your region.

Thats why i suggest admin controled rogue armies to speed things up and balance the blow.
Formerly playing the Nosferatus and Bhrantan Family.
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Qureshima1

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #219: November 22, 2016, 12:18:46 PM »
I have a couple of points to make:

1. The whole point of the rogue is to make the West mipossible to conquer. The simple reason is, before that happenned nobles were spread too thin and there was no reason for conflict. It was really boring. Players need to understand that too much expansion room is no good.

2. The previous situation worked better, when the monsters were confined to the west. Then realms could focus inward and human wars and conflict were more likely. For example the massive war with Luria Nova against most of the island.

I suggest the best solution is to confine the rogue hordes to the west again, and make the west unlivable. That will force all knights to turn eastwards and interesting wars will start again.

DeVerci

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #220: November 22, 2016, 01:52:13 PM »
1. The whole point of the rogue is to make the West mipossible to conquer. The simple reason is, before that happenned nobles were spread too thin and there was no reason for conflict. It was really boring. Players need to understand that too much expansion room is no good.

2. The previous situation worked better, when the monsters were confined to the west. Then realms could focus inward and human wars and conflict were more likely. For example the massive war with Luria Nova against most of the island.
But that's wrong. There was a lot of conflict before the ice-age/rogue wave that hit Dwilight, as Barca and D'Hara and pals were already at war with Luria. And that massive war against Luria was the opposite of fun, you had one refugee realm that was forced to flee and lost 3/4's of its playerbase just crossing the channel trying to fight against Luria which was already established and dug in, and allies that couldn't actually make headway because Luria was just an absolute monster in terms of player count.

Feylonis

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #221: November 22, 2016, 03:18:39 PM »

The top three realms with the most nobles are Astrum, Westgard, and D'Hara. Astrum has a density of around 1.8, while D'Hara has 2.4. Westgard takes the cake at 6.5. But sure, let's further infuriate and frustrate the most populated realms. 10/10, solid game plan.

If the goal is to move towards a 2:1 player to region ratio, these realms are far and beyond from being the problem.

GundamMerc

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #222: November 22, 2016, 07:06:02 PM »
I have a couple of points to make:

1. The whole point of the rogue is to make the West mipossible to conquer. The simple reason is, before that happenned nobles were spread too thin and there was no reason for conflict. It was really boring. Players need to understand that too much expansion room is no good.

2. The previous situation worked better, when the monsters were confined to the west. Then realms could focus inward and human wars and conflict were more likely. For example the massive war with Luria Nova against most of the island.

I suggest the best solution is to confine the rogue hordes to the west again, and make the west unlivable. That will force all knights to turn eastwards and interesting wars will start again.

Point one is something I disagree with a lot. The West was the only part of Dwilight that actually had any meaningful politics. Asylon and Astrum were constantly fighting each other with a couple realms whose alliances would often shift, Barca and a couple other realms had carved out a part of the Southern West and were involved in several wars themselves. Most of these realms weren't solidly within SA's grasp, pretty much the exception regarding that for most of the continent. And they were all the most densely populated realms noble wise by a wide margin, so when you speak about "being spread too thinly" is something I disagree with and I feel you have not fully analyzed the situation. I thought we had already agreed that the monster invasion was a massive mistake in the first place, but apparently some people just refuse to learn.

*I made it friendly readible for you, you're welcome. Cheers Gabanus*
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 10:27:34 PM by Gabanus family »

GoldPanda

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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #223: November 22, 2016, 07:28:18 PM »
You should see that CS level decrease over next 1-4 turns.

Did you change some algorithm, or are you hinting that most of the Monster hordes have already poured out of western Dwilight?
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Re: Monster Problems
« Reply #224: November 22, 2016, 07:36:33 PM »
Neither. I manually instructed some monsters to go march away from Port Raviel to some different human areas in order to diffuse the high monster CS levels inside Port Raviel from the 88k CS concentration you reported.

To the other comments, I am listening. I have not yet found the correct words to productively respond.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 07:44:08 PM by Vita »