Author Topic: Is Dwilight really SMA?  (Read 10823 times)

Karnen

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Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Topic Start: June 21, 2011, 11:41:10 AM »
I read on the wiki that Dwilight is basically meant have a serious medieval atmosphere and theres one thing... well two things... but one thing thats really bothering me atm. i have a character in Fissoa called Tristan who I admit is not really active since I have really had much time recently... I plan to start playing a lot more though. Anyway, I'm getting annoyed at how some characters respond to religion, especially those in power. People should be wanting religion! ANything should be better than pagan peasantry! However I've noticed certain people are very repulsed by religion in my realm! They talk about all it's dictatorial tendencies (yeah obviously but medieval people loved that [email protected]#$)

Theres even one guy who's talked about institutionalising religious freedom apparently. Not sure if it's true.... but I know he definitely doesn't want a religion at all.

Anyway just saying... what shhould I do about this? How should I react?

Fleugs

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #1: June 21, 2011, 11:47:07 AM »
I agree with you, and I believe that the idea of following the game-mechanic "pagan" beliefs or the idea of religious freedom (=! tolerance) does not fit in SMA, nor, in my opinion, anywhere else in Battlemaster, given it is a European setting and not an Asian (where religious tolerance/freedom was more common but also more complicated).

What you can do yourself? Either join a strong religion and try to convert other characters, or join a weaker religion and try to make it stronger. Climb up slowly but have your character a determined religious view. I have learned that when you play your character with a rigid religious view, people, after a while, will respect the idea of only "one true religion" and many will even join you in that thought after a while... but keep in mind, that religion must offer something in return too. Plain RP will not be enough. But priests are very powerful, so they should be able to do the trick.
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Sacha

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #2: June 21, 2011, 12:22:47 PM »
Allowing religious 'freedom' doesn't necessarily have egalitarian motives. Amaury is allowing a certain measure of freedom as King of Luria Nova, not because he's pro-egalitarianism, but to ensure that no single religion can ever dominate the realm and pose a threat to his power. Divide and conquer, buddy.

Shenron

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #3: June 21, 2011, 12:38:37 PM »
I think Karnen is talking about actual egalitarian ideas. I know this because I'm in Fissoa as well and I've seen the same thing.

I'm not too worried though. The players in Fissoa are honest guys and a good OOC discussion should sort everything out.
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Chenier

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #4: June 21, 2011, 12:43:12 PM »
Fissoa with its advy guild looks sketchy on many levels.

But I agree that the whole SMA aspect of Dwilight seemed to have died off. I don't think anyone really bothers with making new oaths such big deals, for example. The zealotry of the start is no longer, and it feels like most other continents now. Minus the more obvious offenses, though, which in itself isn't a bad thing.

Shenron

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #5: June 21, 2011, 12:45:41 PM »
My language: (Apologies for any confusion this results in.)
Awesome = Ossim
Tom = Tarm

Sacha

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #6: June 21, 2011, 12:56:28 PM »
Speaking of SMA in Fissoa... is there really a place for a guild called 'The Verminators'? It sounds rather... silly.

Shenron

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #7: June 21, 2011, 01:04:31 PM »
Speaking of SMA in Fissoa... is there really a place for a guild called 'The Verminators'? It sounds rather... silly.

Well yes. It does.  ;D
 
The player who made it, Karel, doesn't have english as a first language (althought you'd never be able to tell.) I'm sure the intentions were good.

I think the only problem in Fissoa, that stands out from other realms, is the religion part. Nobles are stangely hostile to it.
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fodder

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #8: June 21, 2011, 01:29:25 PM »
...pagan doesn't mean peasant. thing is... religion is very ooc. it's like if it's not founded on an island, the religion doesn't exist ic, so to speak, when we all know that's not true.

so pagan is sort of like a coverall term that means something and nothing.

take for example a family that is based on another island. it follows a religion of that island. it send a young family member to a new island, what does he believe? eh.. apparently not the family religion. well.. he does follow that religion, but it's so insignificant that the game doesn't recognise it and requires the religion to be founded on the new island. why would that noble want to join another religion or for that matter found the same religion over?
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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #9: June 21, 2011, 01:33:55 PM »
Ah yes, I agree. It's just that there are some characters that appear to have no religion. I believe a character should always be able to answer on the question: "What are your beliefs?" He should be able to form some logical religion in his explanation. It doesn't have to be an official religion for all I care, but it has to be something.
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Artemesia

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #10: June 21, 2011, 01:37:52 PM »
"I believe you are annoying me by asking something that I have no need to answer to you because you obviously do not share my faith. Begone."

fodder

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #11: June 21, 2011, 01:58:20 PM »
i think that there should probably be a list of bullets for dwilight that sets out certain things.. that a new hero (or advy i guess) must read upon creation. and a link for reminders.

and i don't mean a link to the wiki.
firefox

Artemesia

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #12: June 21, 2011, 02:02:22 PM »
Hm, I once got a complaint about not addressing someone as "Sir". What's really funny is that the complaint most likely came from the guy who kept signing his angry letters ICly to me with a period. No, seriously, like this would be an example:

"Garret,

You are grasping at straws. You will lose and I'll laugh over your grave. I have nothing more to say to you.

.

[Dude Who Doesn't Matter]"

Shizzle

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #13: June 21, 2011, 02:15:45 PM »
Well, I'm the "Karel" who's referred to. I suppose "Verminators" wasn't the best name I could have come up with, but hey... I'd change the name if I could, provided I'd come up with a better alternative. I proposed the guild name IG first, and there was no objection then. :)

My character has indeed been opposed to any state religion in Fissoa. Main reason is that I think it's stupid to have a religion, just to shut out hostile religions, like many realms seem to have. However, my character has never declared he himself is atheist or anything. I think I've had him say several times how he strictly separates religion and public life. The way I see it, he's part of the "pagan beliefs", according to game mechanics. I have, however, been considering to have him join a religion, and check it out (as I've never been part of any religion in BM), so I'm not really opposed to religions either. I just haven't seen the merit so far.

It's true that I came up with the idea of a Church of Tolerance, as was discussed in a different thread (a while ago), and I now see how non-SMA that would be. I believe that matter has been solved.

@Tristan Karnen's player: if you have problems with Skyndarbau in Fissoa, write a nasty letter and try to sue him for peasant-hugging, like Shane did. I'll gladly participate! ;) And if you want religion to be part of the realm, just go for it. But don't expect me to be all zealous and sh*t. :)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 02:17:20 PM by Shizzle »

Shizzle

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Re: Is Dwilight really SMA?
« Reply #14: June 21, 2011, 02:26:09 PM »
And on-topic: and SMA Dwilight seems kind of utopious (is that a word?). Wether we want it or not, we are just too influenced by the world we live in today. For starters, we don't even know for sure how people thought back then. Of course we can have a guess, and our knowledge is ever improving, but I think it's hybris to say a medieval commoner said this or a medieval noble said that.

I for one believe that people haven't changed all that much in 1000 years. If there's people coming up with a 'Church of Tolerance' today, why not in Medieval Times? Can you honestly say that items as freedom of speech or religion were totally off the map before the Enlightenment? Sure they were repressed, but that doesn't mean those sentiments didn't exist.

And another thing: we all have our own ideas on how medieval society worked. I suppose many of us base their opinions on movies or books, or even scientifical 'evidence', even though it can be hopelessly outdated. As an archaeology student I can testify how I hear of a new developement in an archaeology class, radically altering some view on some medieval item. And then I'm in a history class where the old vision is still supported.

SMA should not be about recreating Medieval Society, because we cannot, and will not ever succeed in doing that - for numerous reasons. I believe SMA should make sure BM doesn't turn into LOTR or any other niche, and stays true to certain values and rules that we create ourselves.