Is Dwilight really SMA?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Well, yeah. Happens in the real world too.

[Chenier]

In order to combat the fanatical theology of SA. VE became more fanatical...

Fanatical?

I don't consider "If the gods hated heathens, they'd have destroyed them themselves already" to be fanatical. Unless you mean fanatical apathy.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Fanatical?

I don't consider "If the gods hated heathens, they'd have destroyed them themselves already" to be fanatical. Unless you mean fanatical apathy.

Perhaps Radical fundamentalist was the right wording...

[Shenron]

Perhaps Radical fundamentalist was the right wording...

I think all people in medieval times were radical fundamentalists by modern standards.

[Shizzle]

I think all people in medieval times were radical fundamentalists by modern standards.

Why would you think that? I don't think the average peasant cared more for the Church than about his next meal. Of course he'd thank the Lawd for that meal, but that's happening today still.

Look at today's muslims. I don't think the majority is fundamentalist, though you could consider the Islam as being pretty hard-core.

[Shenron]

Why would you think that? I don't think the average peasant cared more for the Church than about his next meal. Of course he'd thank the Lawd for that meal, but that's happening today still.

I think that based on the social strucure they accepted (or were forced to accept.) i.e. total domination from the hierarchy with the backing of whatever religious power that hierarchy decided portrayed the truth. What was imposed upon medieval people is akin to what is now called islamic fascism.

Look at today's muslims. I don't think the majority is fundamentalist, though you could consider the Islam as being pretty hard-core.

Perhaps it's cheeky of me to dispute this after making reference to islamic fascism, but I would say on the whole that Islam is not a hardcore religion but rather radical elements have been spurred by a changing political landscape in a newly globalized world.

But that is a discussion for another time.

[vanKaya]

Shane put it really well. Nothing about Islam is inherently more "hardcore" than say Judaism or Christianity. It's a matter of complicated socio-political circumstances that a minority of Muslims are radically fundamental. ( remember Islam is by far the worlds most common religion, most Muslims are just as peaceful and progressive as other religions)

Obviously this is way off topic but to say that islam is more hardcore than other religions is misguided at best and dangerously ignorant at worse.

Not that it matters but I'm an atheist

[Shizzle]

I'm athest too, for that matter, and have nothing at all against the Islam. That wasn't my point.

Thing is that many people have a narrow view of the Islam (seeing it as totalitarian and fundamentalist) perhaps in the same way as we view Medieval society. After all, historic sources are written by and for the important folks, so they often give a wrong image of what peasants said or thought. Also, I believe, many nobles weren't fundamental because of their faith, but because they saw the political advantages of zeal.

[Shenron]

Thing is that many people have a narrow view of the Islam (seeing it as totalitarian and fundamentalist) perhaps in the same way as we view Medieval society. After all, historic sources are written by and for the important folks, so they often give a wrong image of what peasants said or thought. Also, I believe, many nobles weren't fundamental because of their faith, but because they saw the political advantages of zeal.

The fact is we play nobles and not peasants and as Vellos pointed out, we don't play average nobles. We play the elite of the elite! The upper echelons of power mongering! I think your last line really sums up how it should be. Sure nobles may not have all been truly religious, but they would certainly have pretended to have been. I really don't want to draw this parralel too close because I don't think it's very close, but you could sort of compare it to how politicans nowadays in America go around praising god. I think it's likely Obama is an atheist but we will likely not see his true colours as long as he is a politician..

Ah! We're getting off topic! 

[vanKaya]

I like the point you made about how even if a noble didn't truly believe in a religion he would pretend to. Anything less and the peasants, who because of their lack of education were deeply indoctrinated  by the church, would cry out at their lords lack of faith. This was the case in many places where a ruler was thrown out because he did not have the beliefs of the majority of the population ( Moorish Spain is one example that comes to mind)

Also the obama exampl is pretty illustrative. If Obama was to make a case that America as not a Christian nation, but rather one of no particular faith, he would have zero chance of re-election. ( off topic: the founding fathers never intended America to be a "Christian nation"

[Shizzle]

If Obama was portrayed as Atheist as well as 'communist', he'd never get re-elected no Although I think his chances at re-election are slim anyway.

On topic: I follow Shane's argumentation, but I could easily bounce that back at you: if a noble upholds his 'faith' in public to maintain the population's support, would he need to uphold his faith in the same way towards his peer (elite of the elite) nobles? Wouldn't there be some sort of silent agreement like "we all know we're using religion for political gains, so why pretend when we're amongst each other"? I am sure Obama doesn't "God Bless America" when he gives a speech to the higher echelons of the States' society.

I would like IR political discussions on this board, though. Nothing too extreme, but it might be interesting to use our 'BM knowledge' of politics, and use it to evaluate real life issues

[Glaumring the Fox]

Atheist is merely the lack of belief in god... There are many other gods to fill that void.

[Sacha]

Atheist is merely the lack of belief in god... There are many other gods to fill that void.

I hope that was a troll comment...

[Shizzle]

Atheist is merely the lack of belief in god... There are many other gods to fill that void.

Que?

[Indirik]

On topic: I follow Shane's argumentation, but I could easily bounce that back at you: if a noble upholds his 'faith' in public to maintain the population's support, would he need to uphold his faith in the same way towards his peer (elite of the elite) nobles? Wouldn't there be some sort of silent agreement like "we all know we're using religion for political gains, so why pretend when we're amongst each other"?

So you're assuming that every high noble is a cynical, duplicitous, atheist that only uses religion as a means of social domination of the proletariat?