East Continent Concerns About Xavax and Perdan

[Schancke]

I suppose that we've truly had the upper hand up until now in this conflict.
Our suicide attack on Itorunt gave the Alarans some leeway.
If more realms are joinin in with Vix, I consider the tables to have turned. At least in the numbers.
But the military quality and the activity of the players may still tip the scales!

As for international diplomacy, Selenia's got the biggest balls on the continent and you are just envious! 
Xavax is a nice place to play, people.
Join us and our arrogant ways!

[Gabanus family]

Considering they've been able to do several raiding campaigns and nearly destroyed our entire army once, Yeah, I'd say so. If you'll notice, we haven't been able to push beyond our current position for a while now. Besides which, the majority of Alaran characters have absurdly high honor and prestige compared to Xavax, so their units are usually 1.5 times the size of ours.

But you have so many more chars than the 3 realms combined, so I don't really understand why Xavax considered itself the underdog in this war. Even with Vix entering (excluding fallangard and caligus here) that count got just about even, albeit slightly worse for Xavax now.

I have yet to see where the sympathy for Alara is coming from, they brought this entire conflict on themselves. They've helped cause a civil war in our realm, harbored Stegman, who, by the way, is an !@#$%^&. No one's having fun interacting with that character, it's merely helpless frustration as we hope that police patrols randomly catch him, which they never do. And then he pulls !@#$ing scrolls from out of his ass, giving him a free assassination attempt with no risk to his character.

There is little sympathy for Alara, in fact I know virtually nothing of them, nor do most of the others I'd reckon. I think it has more to do with the arrogance and provocations (I'm still guessing on purpose as well) from Xavax' side that they are now in this situation. Xavax has played the diplomacy game extremely poorly  (not as poorly as me, but you're a close second) in this respect, although I do admit that that diplomacy game is somethimes a bit screwed up in my eyes.

Sure the char of Stegman can be an ahole. You'll find many more aholes in the game and in many cases there are in fact people enjoying their char, or at least the things they bring into the realm. I don't think you have any right to say that nobody is enjoying playing with that char, cause if that would be true he'd be banned from everywhere rather than 'harbored'. That you may not like his char, doesn't mean nobody does. I know many chars which are hated by many, but loved by others. Such is the way of the world I'd say and some chars bring it into the extreme, good for them.

The fact is this is just turning into a gang bang Atamaran style. Oh, and I love people talking about how our war against three realms isn't fair, but say nothing about Perdan and Vix both jumping in. The hypocrisy is laudable.

First of all, I am one of those who say that you were in fact the dominant force in your war. You can phrase it as 3 on one as you like, but I look at the player count etc and in this Xavax had a clear advantage, giving you the upper hand in the war. It could have been 5 to 1 for all I care, if all those 5 have 3 nobles and you have 30, you have the upper hand.

If Perdan were to jump in as well, then this war will indeed move towards a extremely unfair one, but unless I missed something, they haven't shown their face yet (right?). Vix jumping in evened the war out actually and with Fallangard joining your side's noblecount is actually still higher. Now once either Caligus or Perdan jumps in, you'll move towards a big disadvantage however (and I expect Caligus to do, because that's what Caligus does. Why do you think I've always tried to fight Caligus, because from my experience they've never actually fought in a fair war. Not in the last few years at least).

To call this an Atamaran gang bang is however way over the top. It's nowhere near as unbalanced as those were, not unless both Perdan and Caligus jump in. In that case the island is doomed...

[Skirting boards]

To call this an Atamaran gang bang is however way over the top. It's nowhere near as unbalanced as those were, not unless both Perdan and Caligus jump in. In that case the island is doomed...

halfway there!

[Constantine]

I find it extremely hilarious how Xavax attempts to ruthlessly bully all its neighbours into submission Cagilan Empire style and when other realms jump in to break this alarming development Xavax brands it a gang-bang that will lead to Atamaran scenario. Perfect logic!

[GundamMerc]

I find it extremely hilarious how Xavax attempts to ruthlessly bully all its neighbours into submission Cagilan Empire style and when other realms jump in to break this alarming development Xavax brands it a gang-bang that will lead to Atamaran scenario. Perfect logic!

CE style would be Caligus, Perdan, AND Xavax declaring war on Alara, Minas Nova, and Perleone. But nice try with that logic fail.

The fact of the matter is that the strength of the two sides were pretty equal, even with Vix joining in. I'm not going to apologize that they couldn't get their forces to coordinate properly. It seems that suddenly winning a war means you overpowered, rather than the actual forces available to either side. Oh, and might I point out, that Vix ON ITS OWN has a better economy than we do. Add Perdan to the fight, a realm that has the same number of nobles as us but a much better economy, and it's absurdly unfair.

But yeah, keep talking outsiders, and ignore the person who was in both Alara and Xavax. You know, the person who actually knows what happened? Not to mention that if we look at the statistics for the past few months, our military power hit a height of 39,914, but this was solely caused by the portal peasant event. For the vast majority of the time, we have been under 30k CS total. At one point Alara had more CS than we did, as amazing as that sounds. Alara, Minas Nova, and Perleone by themselves actually have more CS than we do. Vix by itself DOES have more CS than we do. Now in gold production, we also are not outproducing the other original three. Very most we can produce, in short bursts, has been just barely reaching 6000 gold. more typically, it is in the 5200-5500 range, and that was after taking Alara's regions. Before that, they had around 3300 and we were in the lower 4000s. The other two realms, which we have not touched at all, are in the 2000s, with Alaran currently being the lowest for obvious reasons, but still respectable. Minas Nova and Perleone have economies in the averaging at 2500, so those two alone are pretty equal to us economy-wise. Per noble, all three of our enemies started off much better than us, with around 260 per noble between Alara and Minas Nova, and Perleone going up and down between the upper 300s and mid-to-upper 200s.

Also, for those of you saying that all you need is more nobles to have the stronger force, I will point out that our nobles only have averaged 750 CS each throughout this war. Alara has had more than that for the majority of the war, averaging around 850-950. Minas Nova has averaged 900 per noble, and more like 1200 lately; and Perleone has been at 1300 for the past month. Our total combined military, taking out the exception of the peasant portal event, has averaged 25k CS. Save for when we attacked Itorunt, Alara has averaged 15k CS. Perleone, 9k CS. Minas Nova, overall 8k, but currently 12k.

It's not that they don't have the military to fight us. It's that they each come into our regions one at a time, and we defeat their armies in turn. They fail to coordinate, and thus lose. It's not us being some extreme superpower, it's them failing to unify command and instead acting as independent armies. It's as if we have a 40,000 man army, and they each have 20,000 men. Together they would have a large advantage, but with their forces spread apart we have local superiority.




For the TL;DR among you: Look at the !@#$ing statistics screen.

[Constantine]

CE style would be Caligus, Perdan, AND Xavax declaring war on Alara, Minas Nova, and Perleone. But nice try with that logic fail.

I guess that would be CE style too. How does this invalidate my logic?
Argument fail. :\

The fact of the matter is that the strength of the two sides were pretty equal

Not true.

Add Perdan to the fight, a realm that has the same number of nobles as us but a much better economy, and it's absurdly unfair.

Why weren't you complaining when you had an upper hand both in numbers and coordination? Is it only unfair when you're at a disadvantage?

[GundamMerc]

I guess that would be CE style too. How does this invalidate my logic?Argument fail. :\

Not true.

Why weren't you complaining when you had an upper hand both in numbers and coordination? Is it only unfair when you're at a disadvantage?

You could read the post before actually responding, it would inform you more. Just because you say the sides were not equal doesn't make that so. And I was only speaking of the war recently. The starting situation was even worse for us and better for them.

[BarticaBoat]

I find it extremely hilarious how Xavax attempts to ruthlessly bully all its neighbours into submission Cagilan Empire style and when other realms jump in to break this alarming development Xavax brands it a gang-bang that will lead to Atamaran scenario. Perfect logic!

Wrong. All the southern realms were scheming against each other, but we had the problem of Magnus trusting Starfall utterly. We learned that Starfall was plotting with Minas Nova against us while telling us to plot against Nova, and after the rebellion Selenia confronted Starfall who denied it and we declared annexation of Alara due to their incompetence. Alara and MN allied, then jointly declared hated, and that's that. We definitely were not bullying poor weak Alara and Nova who decided to rise up against us.

[GundamMerc]

Wrong. All the southern realms were scheming against each other, but we had the problem of Magnus trusting Starfall utterly. We learned that Starfall was plotting with Minas Nova against us while telling us to plot against Nova, and after the rebellion Selenia confronted Starfall who denied it and we declared annexation of Alara due to their incompetence. Alara and MN allied, then jointly declared hated, and that's that. We definitely were not bullying poor weak Alara and Nova who decided to rise up against us.

Not to mention they harbored a noble who had attempted to assassinate the Xerarch...

[Constantine]

You could read the post before actually responding, it would inform you more. Just because you say the sides were not equal doesn't make that so. And I was only speaking of the war recently. The starting situation was even worse for us and better for them.

Your post is very misleading. For some reason you are comparing overall realms' CS while actual military power is gauged by mobile army's CS and the number of active nobles.
But once again, northern realms are moving in not because one side is weaker than another but because you're pulling a CE and it's worrisome.

Wrong. All the southern realms were scheming against each other, but we had the problem of Magnus trusting Starfall utterly. We learned that Starfall was plotting with Minas Nova against us while telling us to plot against Nova, and after the rebellion Selenia confronted Starfall who denied it and we declared annexation of Alara due to their incompetence. Alara and MN allied, then jointly declared hated, and that's that. We definitely were not bullying poor weak Alara and Nova who decided to rise up against us.

That's empty rhetoric if end result is a single superpower dominating the entire south.
No one said Xavax did not have a casus belli. What's problematic is it's obvious desire to blob Atamara-style.

[Feylonis]

Wrong. All the southern realms were scheming against each other, but we had the problem of Magnus trusting Starfall utterly. We learned that Starfall was plotting with Minas Nova against us while telling us to plot against Nova, and after the rebellion Selenia confronted Starfall who denied it and we declared annexation of Alara due to their incompetence. Alara and MN allied, then jointly declared hated, and that's that. We definitely were not bullying poor weak Alara and Nova who decided to rise up against us.

This whole post reeks of Atamaran-style playing

1) "declared annexation of Alara due to their incompetence" Wrong. Alara is not yours, you do not have a right to decide what they can or can't do
2) "decided to rise up against us" Wrong. MN and Alara are not your property for them to 'rise up against you'

Stop bringing back the CE police. It's toxic, it's gone, and good riddance

[Schancke]

...but because you're pulling a CE and it's worrisome. That's empty rhetoric if end result is a single superpower dominating the entire south.
No one said Xavax did not have a casus belli. What's problematic is it's obvious desire to blob Atamara-style.

I can fully accept that the international politics of Xavax to be a cause for warring Xavax.

However, I find these constant analogies to the Cagilan Empire of Atamare to be utter nonsense.

Who of you were around when CE became a great power on Atamara??
How does the Xavax today resemble the the creation of CE?

If Xavax were able to take Itorunt, Xavax would still be less powerful than Perdan and Caligus (in gold and nobles), and poorer than Sirion and Nivemus.
Xavax has this far not been a prime example of internal stability.
After defeating Xavax, I expect everybody complaining about Xavax blobbing up to be the new CE of the East Island to take instant affair and dismantle every other realm at par of above the Xavax of today.

Xavax is full of characters who've experienced the pointy end of CE power on Atamara.
Xavax is in general full of active players. We're having a very nice time with these wars now.
What I would worry about is more realms jumping in to annihilate Xavax in order to preserve a status quo.

[Fleugs]

The first thing that's scary is that Xavax Imperium claims lands that are resembling the good old Ibladesh - with Isadril added on top as an extra super bonus. Not exactly something that can be ignored by any realm remotely close to the south.

Secondly, you must understand what a pain in the ass Duke Jeroen (of Eponllyn) has been to Perdan, and how ingenious he was in delaying our conquest of Perdan city and ultimately forcing Perdan to take the city by slaughtering/starving half the peasantry. Any realm that has Jeroen will probably be a valid war target for Perdan.

Thirdly, Xavax made a giant fuzz when Stegman bought Isadril (perhaps rightfully so, though let's be fair, it should have had a lord anyway) and Fallangard decided to join that nuisance when they got some regions of Eponllyn. Essentially delaying Perdan for such a long time might be perceived as an anticipation of Perdan joining the Souther War. If that was the intention, well, they succeeded at least in delaying Perdan from intervening by two to three months. In summary though, the way Xavax/Fallangard treated regions that came under their rule while Perdan clearly said they would take it, didn't help relations.

I know Perdan joining in so closely after Vix did isn't well received in the player base of Xavax (and to a lesser extent the other realms), but this entire war and the many, many side events that spilled over into the Perdan/Vix-Eppy/Nivemus war made temperatures rise. Slap on to that the well stated intention of Xavax to conquer pretty much the entire South (though they offered Perdan Al Arab if we joined on their side, way back), it's pretty fair to say Perdan aims for a divided South rather than a behemoth who clearly hasn't any qualms about declaring war.

If there's any upside for Xavax, really, it's that it has become a very interesting place to play in now. Even I am intrigued, I might considering booting up a  character there. They'll have plenty of enemies to fight with.

[Constantine]

What I would worry about is more realms jumping in to annihilate Xavax in order to preserve a status quo.

I want to make it very clear that nobody wants to annihilate Xavax. The goal here is to preserve plurality in the south.
If Xavax plays smart they will come off with more regions than they had before the war.

[GundamMerc]

I'm surrounded with idiots whose heads are buried in the sand. !@#$ing typical East Continent !@#$tery.

All of you are ignorant about what caused this war, what the actual strengths of those involved are, and Constantine in particular, you avoid my reply by only pointing out one issue of it, but providing no contrary evidence, as well as ignoring all the other points I raised, namely the economy and numbers of nobles. Also please note that this was WITHOUT talking about Vix.

How about we look at this another way, hmmm? Let's assume Xavax doesn't start the war. Everyone stays at peace. That's what it would have been, because the ruler of Alara refused to go to war with Minas Nova, the only other realm he could have had a meaningful conflict with. I know, I was there, I argued against that, and so my character was banned as a "spy". The lot of you are completely ignorant about everything that is going on, yet claim to have some "superior" knowledge of the whole thing.

But of course stubborn mules being what they are, I don't expect anything less nowadays. People claim to be all about "change" and "upsetting the status quo", but again and again the same old people and realms come along, squashing any actual possibility for interesting !@#$ because they're "afraid". No, if any realm is pulling a CE, it's Perdan and Vix by pulling out the "they're a threat and are fighting other realms" card. It's just like when CE intervened with Eston's war, leading to its destruction and splitting. But please, do go !@#$ing on about how it is Xavax doing this. The realm whose only ally is Fallangard. Compare that to Vix, who is allied with Perleone, Caligus, and Perdan; or Caligus, who is allied with Alara, Perleone, Shadowdale, Vix, and Sirion. I mean seriously, why do realms need more than one ally? All it does is produce horribly unbalanced situations.

If there's anyone that Perdan should keep their !@#$ing eye on, it's Caligus. We're small fry compared to them, and even with Itorunt would still be small fry. Oh, by the way, I was around for old Ibladesh. It wasn't just the southern part of the lake "doughnut". It went all the way around at the height of their power, when they had conquered Itorunt. And it actually included Ibladesh, or have you forgotten their namesake city that we don't have? The absurdity of the arguments people in here are making boggles the mind.

But I guess people are too butt-hurt over having their alliance-happy asses criticized for being hypocrites who claim that Xavax is CE, all while committing actions that would make CE proud.