Author Topic: East Continent Concerns About Xavax and Perdan  (Read 64890 times)

steelabjur@aol.com

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I want to make it very clear that nobody wants to annihilate Xavax. The goal here is to preserve plurality in the south.
If Xavax plays smart they will come off with more regions than they had before the war.

That's not what I heard from sympathizers in Perdan...

Schancke

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I want to make it very clear that nobody wants to annihilate Xavax. The goal here is to preserve plurality in the south.
If Xavax plays smart they will come off with more regions than they had before the war.

I hope you are right.

The first thing that's scary is that Xavax Imperium claims lands that are resembling the good old Ibladesh - with Isadril added on top as an extra super bonus. Not exactly something that can be ignored by any realm remotely close to the south...

...I know Perdan joining in so closely after Vix did isn't well received in the player base of Xavax (and to a lesser extent the other realms), but this entire war and the many, many side events that spilled over into the Perdan/Vix-Eppy/Nivemus war made temperatures rise. Slap on to that the well stated intention of Xavax to conquer pretty much the entire South (though they offered Perdan Al Arab if we joined on their side, way back), it's pretty fair to say Perdan aims for a divided South rather than a behemoth who clearly hasn't any qualms about declaring war.

The first Xerarch left a mess on the rulers channel, but he was removed in a coup, partially because of that. OOC  you can't hardly take his statements to proof of the current strategy.

To my Characters knowledge, Xavax has only claimed Alaran lands, which of course is bad enough.
It's the only realm which we have declared war -  and Alara did try to assasinate the Xerach.
Although, I can admit some leaders - none mentioned - have a quite aggressive tone towards opponents...

But how is the war Xavax towards Alara different from Perdan's war on Eponnlyn?
Hasn't Perdan grown to a Behemoth, on the spoils of another, defeated realm? 
Hasn't Perdan warred more realms than Xavax?



Thirdly, Xavax made a giant fuzz when Stegman bought Isadril (perhaps rightfully so, though let's be fair, it should have had a lord anyway) and Fallangard decided to join that nuisance when they got some regions of Eponllyn. Essentially delaying Perdan for such a long time might be perceived as an anticipation of Perdan joining the Souther War. If that was the intention, well, they succeeded at least in delaying Perdan from intervening by two to three months. In summary though, the way Xavax/Fallangard treated regions that came under their rule while Perdan clearly said they would take it, didn't help relations.

I suppose this is a nice example on how how events are perceived differently based on the different perspective and added information.

Stegman bought Isadril in the wake of the coup agains Magnus Aurea  and before our war with Alara started.
I can assure you, there were noone in Xavax internally portraying Perdan as the enemy before or after that event, and Perdan intervention to a war that was yet to start wasn't given a thought.

When the Eponllyn regions fell to Fallangard, Xavax were fully occupied with our war on Alara, MN and Perleone - and, if discovered at all, the issue was not discussed.

I can see how, these events has built anti-sentiment for Xavax in Vix and Perdan.
However, the nobles of Xavax does not consider themselves in entity with Fallangard (with a plausible exception for a certain mastemind on top).
IC in Xavax, and OOC, one can hardly consider Xavax/Fallangard as a single entity of now.

Again, IC we might have messed up - and we are happily enjoying the consequences.
But I truly don't hope that a majority of BM players are OOC considering Xavax an evil that must be stopped in order to save the game of BM.

Schancke

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I want to make it very clear that nobody wants to annihilate Xavax. The goal here is to preserve plurality in the south.
If Xavax plays smart they will come off with more regions than they had before the war.

Plurality...
Basicly, you wish the south to remain filled with miniscule, idle realms that are no threat to the current powers?

GundamMerc

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Plurality...
Basicly, you wish the south to remain filled with miniscule, idle realms that are no threat to the current powers?

Yep, and hope everyone in those realms becomes completely bored, so they become empty.

steelabjur@aol.com

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Also our intent with Alara at the start of the war wasn't one of annexation but punishment. Many nobles took the insults thrown at them (generally) and Selenia (specifically) to heart, which led to the decision to go to war with them, their continued taunting afterward led to the goal to become being rid of them. Their use of odious looting methods (rape, genocide) only strengthened that sentiment. We've never had great ambitions toward Minas Novan or Perleone regions, our intent was driving them out of the war, until Minas decided to declare Hatred and employ the same looting methods led to our mutual Hatred and the decision to drive their holdings rogue (letting Stegman stay there didn't help) and leave them largely as such (who wants to be the Lord of a dirty little town or it's stick farmers anyway ;) ). Perleone had long been a non-factor in the war, a few poorly planned raids into Oc Lu Pesh and their general taking the long way around to join the raiding. We had no particular plans for their regions. We're hardly the empire builders we're being made out to be.

Constantine

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That's not what I heard from sympathizers in Perdan...
I think I know who you're talking about. He's lying.
I hope you are right.
If I'm not I'll be the first to join a popular rebellion.
Plurality...
Basicly, you wish the south to remain filled with miniscule, idle realms that are no threat to the current powers?
Not only I would like to see several smaller belligerent realms in the south but also to break up the northern behemoths. No realm should have more than two cities, wasn't that a common sentiment in active realms?
I think shaking up the continent in this manner was Perdan's and Vix's goal from the get go and EC does feel more vibrant right now.

GundamMerc

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I think I know who you're talking about. He's lying.If I'm not I'll be the first to join a popular rebellion.Not only I would like to see several smaller belligerent realms in the south but also to break up the northern behemoths. No realm should have more than two cities, wasn't that a common sentiment in active realms?
I think shaking up the continent in this manner was Perdan's and Vix's goal from the get go and EC does feel more vibrant right now.

Perdan and Vix haven't had any effect on the continent as a whole besides destroying Eponlynn as a meaningful realm (I probably got the name spelled wrong, deal with it). Everything else on the continent has largely happened without their input. The Southern War, the rebellion of Oligarch. None of those needed Perdan or Vix to happen. From the outside looking in, all Perdan and Vix are, are two realms dedicated to ensuring that things return to the old status quo of Pax Perdana.

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@GundanMerc, I suggest you take a step back and relax a bit. You're in this way over your head when you start insulting people on an OOC level, no matter the reason. People are trying to explain to you how they have perceived certain events, from the opposite side of where you're sitting with different information than you have. What the reason is for them starting a war (or supporting it) is based on their interprettation of events, not on the actual events themselves.

@Fleugs, I would like to say that I'm very disappointed right now, especially with Perdan. I had my hopes up for the realm, but it seems that was too much to ask for. Perdan has reason enough to war Nivemus, to go after Sirion, to take out Caligus and you could have easily found a reason to siege Oligarch City, or simply continue your war with Eponllyn and strike and possibly to turn Nivemus/Sirion against you on that front if you continue still further. All these options would have been far preferable than to the quick slaughter you're going to put Xavax in now with Caligus intending to join as well, but even without Caligus. And you know Caligus wants to and that they only reason that they haven't restarted against Fallangard is because Sirion bullheaded refuses peace and they're wondering if they should continue to help, which they don't really want to.
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steelabjur@aol.com

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Who said Caligus is going to join in?

Gabanus family

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Who said Caligus is going to join in?

Well they seem very interested in signing peac with Oligarch, said they don't want to fight it anymore and I see only one target they'll go after next...Fallangard. Those two actually have a history.
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Fleugs

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Well, there's so many variables here, I'm not going to outline the intentions of Perdan (or rather, me) entirely. But right now we're in the Southern War and until certain variables change, we will be.
Ardet nec consumitur.

Constantine

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Perdan has reason enough to war Nivemus, to go after Sirion, to take out Caligus and you could have easily found a reason to siege Oligarch City, or simply continue your war with Eponllyn and strike and possibly to turn Nivemus/Sirion against you on that front if you continue still further. All these options would have been far preferable than to the quick slaughter you're going to put Xavax in now with Caligus intending to join as well, but even without Caligus. And you know Caligus wants to and that they only reason that they haven't restarted against Fallangard is because Sirion bullheaded refuses peace and they're wondering if they should continue to help, which they don't really want to.
That's a weird perspective. Do you really think finishing off Eponllyn would be a great accomplishment, bearing in mind Nivemus explicitly bailed on them and Sirion is not likely to intervene either?
Warring Oligarch is not really interesting either, I personally like what that realm is doing.
Taking on Nivemus or Sirion to break them up I personally see as acceptable. But it so happened we first had to move in to stop Xavax from turning into second Sirion. Because if he have two of those, we're never breaking anything up as Atamara has clearly shown.

Gabanus family

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That's a weird perspective. Do you really think finishing off Eponllyn would be a great accomplishment, bearing in mind Nivemus explicitly bailed on them and Sirion is not likely to intervene either?
Warring Oligarch is not really interesting either, I personally like what that realm is doing.
Taking on Nivemus or Sirion to break them up I personally see as acceptable. But it so happened we first had to move in to stop Xavax from turning into second Sirion. Because if he have two of those, we're never breaking anything up as Atamara has clearly shown.

I agree, out of all those choices warring Eponllyn would be my least favorite, then Oligarch, but the other 3 scenarios would have been much preferable to the current actions in my opinion, at least as a player. Nivemus/Sirion would allow Perdan to break the north, which never has been done and with the ancient rivalries with Sirion and Nivemus several incursions against Perdan in the last few wars should be more than enough reason to do so. At the same time the relations with Caligus has always been strange and hostile throughout the history and they are currently allied with the north and some of the south. So your logic of dissolving the creation of an Atamaran like powerhouse would sooner have you move against Caligus rather than Xavax. Considering Caligus and Xavax however would have kept each other busy (as after Fallangard, Caligus no doubt wants to enter) you'd see either one of the 2 powerhouses losing strength, while you have the opportunity to break the north, which would be like killing 2 birds with one stone.

Now it will just be one big slaughter of Xavax and Fallangard and the war will be done in like 2 or 3 months max with Xavax crushed and Fallangard prob pushed back to one region or so no doubt. Only furthering the situation where everyone becomes allied with everyone, which was the root of all problems on Atamara to begin with if you ask me. Too many damn long lasting alliances, for whatever reason.
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Constantine

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North is kinda screwed up. It will take a while to do anything with it. And I'm sure we'll get there. I'm actually disappointed we had to make this detour although I do recognize it was necessary.
The South on the other hand looks very interesting and fresh. There's a lot of potential there and I'd just hate to see it turn into a boring dominate. I honestly believe we're helping the server in general by not letting Xavax finish off Alara.
Of course, that's just my humble opinion.

I also would like to make it clear that the only realm that is currently trying to completely destroy another realm is Xavax. Do you agree that several strong realms are better than one huge one and a few underfed toadies like Fallangard?
As far as I am aware neither Perdan nor Vix has destroying Xavax or reducing Fallangard to one region as their goals. Where did that come from?

GundamMerc

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North is kinda screwed up. It will take a while to do anything with it. And I'm sure we'll get there. I'm actually disappointed we had to make this detour although I do recognize it was necessary.
The South on the other hand looks very interesting and fresh. There's a lot of potential there and I'd just hate to see it turn into a boring dominate. I honestly believe we're helping the server in general by not letting Xavax finish off Alara.
Of course, that's just my humble opinion.

I also would like to make it clear that the only realm that is currently trying to completely destroy another realm is Xavax. Do you agree that several strong realms are better than one huge one and a few underfed toadies like Fallangard?
As far as I am aware neither Perdan nor Vix has destroying Xavax or reducing Fallangard to one region as their goals. Where did that come from?

Past experience from Atamara, and looking at what you did to Eponlynn. Also, the only realm we wanted to destroy was Alara, Minas Nova made it a necessity because of the hatred declaration that started with them and became mutual. Alara, without actually conquering Minas Nova (which I had suggested long ago when I was still in Alara), was never going to be a proper realm.

Also, I would gladly destroy any realm that harbors that !@#$ who plays Stegman. The scroll spam is strong in that one, and being magically reduced into waiting for your character to not be wounded is not my definition of fun.

Also, you speak of Xavax being the only ones trying to destroy a realm. Of course, that is if you completely ignore, say Caligus and Sirion. Both of which are much, MUCH stronger than our realm. Your logic is the biggest leap of self-denial I've ever seen. Let's just say what Perdan really wants and gets the truth out there. They just don't want someone that could fight them on even terms in the south, so they're going to balkanize it while remaining the same !@#$ing size with all their Alliance-chain buddies.