Author Topic: Firebrand society  (Read 6310 times)

GundamMerc

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 929
    • View Profile
Re: Firebrand society
« Reply #15: May 24, 2016, 12:00:51 AM »
I wonder how much that had to do with just trust thouh. Eponllyn as far as I know wasn't even so keen on the war as they had nothing to gain and it was supposed to be a war to gain passage rights into Sirion and Nivemus for Perdan and Vix respectively. This later turned into a slaugther of Eponllyn even after they had agreed upon the passage rights. This all happened way before Eponllyn ever declared hatred. That pretty much only happened when Eponllyn was back to only Westmoor area and about to be destroyed in their eyes.

I do see what you mean however concerning the matter of trust and agree with you for the most part. But at the same time, I play a very arrogant char in EC for instance and he may well decide to punish someone severely anyway. Like you can't promise never to destroy them on an OOC level, that threat should somehow be there, but it should not be the only option people consider, not by far.

On Dwilight I hope to soon introduce a nice surprise and with Oligarch I also intend to start minor conflicts in the future, should we ever get the opportunity that is. I think however that where some OOC debate is definately healthy, it should not spring into an OOC group deciding and controlling things beforehand. That is the distinction I would like to make here with my rambling.

I don't see how OOC planning in and of itself is bad. So long as you aren't trying to leave out other players IC, then it can really only help, as there is only so much you can say IC towards planning something before people stop the thing dead in its tracks before you even start. Also, it seems that you still haven't learned from the various My Guy Syndrome talks.

People too often use a single line of logic for their characters, meaning if someone else does "blank", then said character will always do "blank", making characters unable to be flexible according to what the player wants to do. This isn't a game where playing a character a certain way all the time is the right way to play them.

steelabjur@aol.com

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: Firebrand society
« Reply #16: June 02, 2016, 08:46:24 AM »
The Colonial Senate does a pretty good job at keeping wars from being completely destructive while still being fun. Since low level membership is encouraged for every noble in the Colonies, characters who wouldn't otherwise have the chance to interact can, which can lead to even more conflict.

Gabanus family

  • Board Moderator
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1340
    • View Profile
Re: Firebrand society
« Reply #17: June 02, 2016, 11:49:59 AM »
I don't see how OOC planning in and of itself is bad. So long as you aren't trying to leave out other players IC, then it can really only help, as there is only so much you can say IC towards planning something before people stop the thing dead in its tracks before you even start. Also, it seems that you still haven't learned from the various My Guy Syndrome talks.

People too often use a single line of logic for their characters, meaning if someone else does "blank", then said character will always do "blank", making characters unable to be flexible according to what the player wants to do. This isn't a game where playing a character a certain way all the time is the right way to play them.

Oh trust me, my chars have gone through enough changes just to keep the game fun, don't get me started on the My Guy Syndrome. This doesn't however take away from everything I've said. I prefer to get things done IC as much as possible, that is how I see it.
New account active chars:
Garas: First Oligarch - Goriad: Astrum - Goriad II: Obia'Syela

Fleugs

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 668
    • View Profile
Re: Firebrand society
« Reply #18: June 02, 2016, 06:37:01 PM »
Compared to "years ago", perhaps a shift has taken place where your character has more ingame responsibilities compared to the responsibilities a player holds towards the community. I don't wish to generalize, so I'll talk about myself, but I have the feeling this may apply to the game in a whole;

I used to play my char as an extension of myself (horribly so, because I was in my teenage years back then) where now I play my character as a being on itself. This has caused a shift in how I approach ingame decisions, for example: where ten years ago I would treat them as a player and evaluate them as such (thus taking into account a larger picture) I now treat them almost exclusively through the eyes of my character. I feel that this was necessary: there were more and more RPG-minded players coming into the game thus shifting the focus from playing e.g. Risk to Dungeons&Dragons - less theoretical and calculated planning and more playing with a story attached to it. While that is nice, it has (for me) a side effect that I might get too stubborn in how I build up my character. Unlike real people, who are open to change in character, my ingame characters do not. Perhaps because their timespan is simply much smaller than my own. I dunno, I just don't tend to change my character's behaviour & principles. Perhaps I should.

So recently I decided that, well, I didn't have qualms with OOC arrangements a decade ago. So I approached a few people on IRC (yup, I know, still a giant OOC clan) and talked about Perdan/Vix. I had already decided for my character to ditch old ideas about Perdan and thus I could approach EC with a fresh look (also didn't care whatsoever about the history). It allowed me, for example, to stop going to war against Vix to "reconquer" them. Why not allow a new realm to exist, I thought? More realms equals more realms you can fight. Which we did, but not for reconquest. We came to the conclusion, OOC, that war was crucial to attract a player base to make your realm fun. It simply gives activity (aka message count) a jolt and at the same time it allows your realm to attract nobles from places where there is peace.

I know, it's not nice to construct a war to draw nobles from another realm, potentially squashing anything fun to happen there, but as a ruler you hold some responsibilities. Your first and foremost task - and I too sometimes fail in this - is to guide your realm to what your players want. Not your nobles. At least that is how I changed my thinking, recently. There is more to take into account than ingame arguments. Sometimes it's better to use these ingame arguments to create a story, but I now believe it's preferable to base the outlining of your realm's "existence" on an OOC-vision and then mold the ingame story lines to it.

So this gets me to a conflicting point which I mentioned earlier in this post: my OOC vision. I never wanted to take Perdan City. That's it. I still feel I let myself down by doing so, because in my OOC vision, I wanted Eponllyn to remain a vibrant realm. However we kind-of wrecked them. Why? Because I felt  the characters (or players? I know for sure some also made the OOC motive) wanted to reconquer. So take back into account the history of Perdan, which I chose to abandon. Personally, the path we went on is a defeat for me. However, I took into the account not so much the opinion of other characters ingame, but also the opinion of players. Strong arguments were made. For example, and this argument was made ingame and is what I believe a perfect example of an "old playstyle" which I would like to see return: Perdan had 30+ nobles and one city. Our income per capita was ridiculously low, yet we fielded one of the strongest and possibly the most effective army on the continent. The argument is then that, simply, to keep Perdan itself viable with the noble count it had, expansion was simply a necessity. Even now the argument continues that Vix should give up more regions to us as originally agreed too (so technically the current situation). Vix, for crying out loud. Vix and Perdan are twins. Inseperable. We rock together, I have the feeling both ingame and OOC that these two realms click great.

Perhaps that argument is right. I don't know. Is it not fair that we drew in about 20 players, we should at least give them something? Most saw their tax income drop, and drop some more, because people kept joining. You have the chance to make your realm sustainable for your new noble count, perhaps you should just grab it. But then again that goes at the expense of another realm.

I'm straying off my train of thought, but to summarize I like it that I recently decided to take OOC arguments into account more. I still respect people who play their charaters with "pure RP", playing it as itself. But I am more and more going back to a point where I play my characters as little soldiers in my OOC wishes. They still have a story line and their ingame letters will mostly still be perfect in an ingame environment, but I might add in a tad more of a sense of "I'm playing a strategy board game".

tl;dr: took more OOC into account for playing game, still conflicted, exploring long lost boundaries!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 06:38:56 PM by Fleugs »
Ardet nec consumitur.

Gabanus family

  • Board Moderator
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1340
    • View Profile
Re: Firebrand society
« Reply #19: June 02, 2016, 07:45:55 PM »
I do take OOC more in mind, but more in guiding my chars themselves. My OOC however has nothing to do with the realm I'm in. Even if Oligarch falls for instance, but it's for a good reason and to create more fun, I'd be alright with that. What concerns me for example is that you say there is a great click between Perdan and Vix and 'betrayel' or anything is pretty much out of the question. I'm growing much more of the opinion that alliances should become more fluent, because I've seen these big long lasting alliances ruining continents time and time again. When you finally do win with your best buddy, what then?

I can say I had more fun in Ibladesh, even when we got destroyed (you of all people should know :p) then in a realm that has best buddies and some other alliances and 'dominates'  the island. That is just my OOC vision though and I know there are others who would disagree with my concept of fun, which makes this discussion so difficult.
New account active chars:
Garas: First Oligarch - Goriad: Astrum - Goriad II: Obia'Syela

JDodger

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: Firebrand society
« Reply #20: June 02, 2016, 07:58:21 PM »
so many books
By the way, would love to see you coordinate three realms without having an OOC teamspeak with everyone on it.