Author Topic: SA vs ES  (Read 5525 times)

Meneldur

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SA vs ES
« Topic Start: May 30, 2016, 04:02:03 AM »
So its been a long time since I played a character with any interest in NW Dwilight and a lot has changed. Since the wiki is practically dead now, I was wondering if someone could explain to me how on earth SA and ES ended up in such a loving relationship? I mean NW Dwilight is just about as peace-locked and boring as its ever been, I would have thought people would be jumping at the possibility of conflict.

Where's a Kabrinski when you need one...
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:03:56 AM by Meneldur »

JDodger

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #1: May 30, 2016, 04:20:33 AM »
pretty much everyone is fighting wars or monster swarms or recovering from empire collapses. i think only fissoa and hd are not in one of those situations. so actually every realm is pretty busy in one way or another.

what, in your opinion, should the situation look like?
Why then Selenia should DEFINITELY come to visit? Richer AND Happier you say? That must be seen to be believed.

Victor C

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #2: May 30, 2016, 04:30:53 AM »
War war war!  ;D Unleash the battle ponies!

"Ma'Lord! But they outnumber us 10-1!"
"TREASON! Send him to the front of the line to die first."

Crusades! Pillaging! Back stabbing! Something that doesn't mean everyone is staring at each other like "Oh hey there... enjoying your monsters? I am too! What a coincidence... let's kill them together!"


Jokes aside,

I'd like to see someone capitalize on all this monster chaos.
"The greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one that gets the people to do the greatest things." - Ronald Reagan

Meneldur

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #3: May 30, 2016, 04:32:09 AM »
pretty much everyone is fighting wars or monster swarms or recovering from empire collapses. i think only fissoa and hd are not in one of those situations. so actually every realm is pretty busy in one way or another.

what, in your opinion, should the situation look like?

Well, I guess I'm just surprised to see to see what was once Morek divided peacefully between realms of the two religions. I would have thought Morek and Astrum at least would want to claim Caiyun, or that the two ES realms would want to finally purge the remains of the old theocracies. Instead all I've encountered is an "Interfaith Council" and the two religions apparently giving each other "variant" status.

But then again I'm basing this on SA attitudes from ages back, hence why I was wondering whether there was any specific history behind the fact the two religions have come to peacefully coexist.

Vita`

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #4: May 30, 2016, 05:06:57 AM »
Quote
I was wondering if someone could explain to me how on earth SA and ES ended up in such a loving relationship?
It's been off and on, depending upon events. But basically, Turin and Seoras got along enough and Turin founded the Interfaith Council. And SA and ESA are both orthodox, I would say ESA is more orthodox than SA is.

Quote
I mean NW Dwilight is just about as peace-locked and boring as its ever been, I would have thought people would be jumping at the possibility of conflict.

Where's a Kabrinski when you need one...
There was going to be conflict, Kabrinski and all, but the same old SA status-quo, peace-loving political domination happened.

Morek Empire was announced as a dual SA-ESA theocracy. I even consecrated a temple expansion dedicated to their war victory against my own realm (trying to deter the idea of religion as a political allegiance as much as a spiritual culture), half war-memorial. Kabrinski ruling Morek, we were aiming for a nice-even war of our two weak Morek, HD realms against Arnor. There was quiet tension over Freke with Astrum still. Then dustole quit, Katrina became ruler, and wouldn't talk to us (her ally) until after she had traded a bunch of regions with Astrum and Arnor, formed alliances with them, and asked us for our region. When I tried to discuss the matter, I never heard anything back. Oh, and that temple that was dedicated to Morek Empire's war victory in an SA-ESA theocracy? Destroyed by a new lord, not even of SA, pagan, with no real care or enforcement at all by Morek's government. So the same old 'we are SA, we can never fight each other, we love peace, and war is bad unless the continent all wars the same realm' attitude carries on.

Between what I've mentioned here and various other events, I've probably become really burnt out with the whole thing as it seems that no matter how much you try, no one gives a !@#$ and just wants to sit on their titles and play CooperationMaster. So why even try? You can openly share eldership, church direction, and theology with others, but everyone insists on doing their own thing, keeping us all isolated in smaller numbers (isnt that what our realms are for, why should religions be smaller than realms?) boring our time away instead of engaging each other. You try to enforce anything (like protecting your temples) and you're warlike and must be destroyed. You provide the exact reforms others are demanding in another church, but god forbid cooperating with those who already agree with you instead of arguing with those opposed (and if you win your argument, then you just make two churches that are more similar and bland for the continental experience instead of two conflicting churches). It's rather depressing to make the exact same points as others to have them fall on deaf ears.

Quote
Well, I guess I'm just surprised to see to see what was once Morek divided peacefully between realms of the two religions.
It wasn't exactly peaceful, even if it was internal. SA's ruling hierarchy tried to keep it together and it was non-SA Morekian elements that broke it apart. SA wanted to keep Morek's domination of entire duchies without lords and 3 regions for each noble in realm.

Quote
I would have thought Morek and Astrum at least would want to claim Caiyun, or that the two ES realms would want to finally purge the remains of the old theocracies.
Morek is a theocracy of both ESA and SA, or at least claimed to be. Astrum was at war with HD over Caiyun until my character joined HD to provide a priestly rule over Caiyun that had been lost. ESA is more about a community trying to improve the continent's playing atmosphere more than political wars; that said, the peacelock/allianceblock is something we've consistently condemned from SA's theocratic federation/alliances. I just want to stress ESA is more about condemning Things Going Wrong (whether a lord, or a realm, or an idea) than SA, realms, or other political entities.

But like I said above, I am probably burnt out, as it seems too many people wanting to do it their own way (reforming SA, ESA, Darkanism, VE, Storm Maid, etc.). At least Dwilight is doing better than EC's ten tiny religions with most having only a single priest. While I personally might be burnt out from seeming like my efforts are in vain, I do understand there are some eager ESA faithful down in Luria Boreal.

Ketchum

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #5: May 30, 2016, 05:36:28 AM »
Where's a Kabrinski when you need one...
The last Kabrinski is dead after she summoned Daimons while Morek still at war with Arnor. Last I hear that last Kabrinski somehow showed up or resurrected at Belu depending on which versions of story you on, though that topic for Belu.

War war war!  ;D Unleash the battle ponies!

"Ma'Lord! But they outnumber us 10-1!"
"TREASON! Send him to the front of the line to die first."

Crusades! Pillaging! Back stabbing! Something that doesn't mean everyone is staring at each other like "Oh hey there... enjoying your monsters? I am too! What a coincidence... let's kill them together!"


Jokes aside,

I'd like to see someone capitalize on all this monster chaos.
I agree with your analogy. It is funny :P

That's why my character is trying to push for crusade. But there are just too many old characters above my character in SA :(

Morek Empire was announced as a dual SA-ESA theocracy. I even consecrated a temple expansion dedicated to their war victory against my own realm (trying to deter the idea of religion as a political allegiance as much as a spiritual culture), half war-memorial. Kabrinski ruling Morek, we were aiming for a nice-even war of our two weak Morek, HD realms against Arnor. There was quiet tension over Freke with Astrum still. Then dustole quit, Katrina became ruler, and wouldn't talk to us (her ally) until after she had traded a bunch of regions with Astrum and Arnor, formed alliances with them, and asked us for our region. When I tried to discuss the matter, I never heard anything back. Oh, and that temple that was dedicated to Morek Empire's war victory in an SA-ESA theocracy? Destroyed by a new lord, not even of SA, pagan, with no real care or enforcement at all by Morek's government. So the same old 'we are SA, we can never fight each other, we love peace, and war is bad unless the continent all wars the same realm' attitude carries on.
Katrina after Kabrinski not speaking much either. Now my character trying to *hush hush* start a new Revolution in Morek, we shall see 8)

I do agree with Vita post above, it pretty much describes everything. Though my character does not know about outside communication, but at least he is in this internally at Morek.

So if you wish to start a little new war or something on Dwilight, you can contact me.
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Victor C

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #6: May 30, 2016, 05:58:37 AM »
Perhaps we are stalling ourselves too long by making the excuse "we are busy with monsters"... People are too desperate to hold what power they have and do not take risks... this is the main issue in the present.


We need to find a way to force these people to take risks. Through persuasion or violence... both works well for me... I planned to provoke Luria Nova and drag them into taking action... but felt that it may hinder the nice 1 v 1 in westfold and Swordfell. (Hence my apology came forward((Vita also told me to do it ;P through RP of course))
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 05:38:34 PM by victor c »
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Meneldur

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #7: May 30, 2016, 04:48:51 PM »
Thanks for the explanation, Vita. I have to say it is rather depressing to read so much potential going to waste- there definitely seems to be an attitude problem here. I mean voluntarily giving away regions even when you have the numbers and allies to defend them? CooperationMaster indeed.

Nevertheless I think there could still be potential for conflict: as I see it there are sufficient differences between SA and ESA that it should be possible to stir up some religious tension, particularly in realms that have something to gain from such a war. Maybe after the war between Swordfell and Westfold finishes I'll have my character become a priest and see what he can do. The trick will be to have a concept of "holy war" that doesn't necessitate a an SA Federation pile-up; perhaps more an idea of an individual realm undertaking a personal quest to purge an area of heathens rather than a crusade-style "defense of the faith" idea. But anyway we shall have to see, my character is too involved with Swordfell at the moment for this to be anything more than daydreaming.

Gabanus family

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #8: May 30, 2016, 05:07:04 PM »
Thanks for the explanation, Vita. I have to say it is rather depressing to read so much potential going to waste- there definitely seems to be an attitude problem here. I mean voluntarily giving away regions even when you have the numbers and allies to defend them? CooperationMaster indeed.

Nevertheless I think there could still be potential for conflict: as I see it there are sufficient differences between SA and ESA that it should be possible to stir up some religious tension, particularly in realms that have something to gain from such a war. Maybe after the war between Swordfell and Westfold finishes I'll have my character become a priest and see what he can do. The trick will be to have a concept of "holy war" that doesn't necessitate a an SA Federation pile-up; perhaps more an idea of an individual realm undertaking a personal quest to purge an area of heathens rather than a crusade-style "defense of the faith" idea. But anyway we shall have to see, my character is too involved with Swordfell at the moment for this to be anything more than daydreaming.

Don't worry, we've got this one covered! We were slightly sidetracked by a lot of monster hordes, but with that being cleared I plan to do at least something. Although it will be relatively small, it should hopefully pave the way for some future stuff as well. My char is now so aggressively pushing this, that not even our ruler or any other would be able to stop it now.
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GundamMerc

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #9: May 30, 2016, 06:11:23 PM »
Don't worry, we've got this one covered! We were slightly sidetracked by a lot of monster hordes, but with that being cleared I plan to do at least something. Although it will be relatively small, it should hopefully pave the way for some future stuff as well. My char is now so aggressively pushing this, that not even our ruler or any other would be able to stop it now.

And he has me as Judge supporting him :3

Victor C

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #10: May 30, 2016, 06:39:29 PM »
And he has me as Judge supporting him :3
Don't worry, we've got this one covered! We were slightly sidetracked by a lot of monster hordes, but with that being cleared I plan to do at least something. Although it will be relatively small, it should hopefully pave the way for some future stuff as well. My char is now so aggressively pushing this, that not even our ruler or any other would be able to stop it now.

Conspirators! How dare you attempt to make a war more interesting! CALL THE FUN POLICE! Where's SA when you need it? I

;P jokes aside again,

I'm interested to see what you'll do. Hopefully you can spark some tension between SA and ESA.
"The greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one that gets the people to do the greatest things." - Ronald Reagan

Skirting boards

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #11: May 31, 2016, 12:00:36 AM »

That's why my character is trying to push for crusade. But there are just too many old characters above my character in SA :(
Katrina after Kabrinski not speaking much either. Now my character trying to *hush hush* start a new Revolution in Morek, we shall see 8)


So if you wish to start a little new war or something on Dwilight, you can contact me.

I've been planning on assasinating Katrina for some time now. I'm glad im not the only one with grand  plans.

Sacha

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #12: May 31, 2016, 02:03:55 AM »
Perhaps we are stalling ourselves too long by making the excuse "we are busy with monsters"... People are too desperate to hold what power they have and do not take risks... this is the main issue in the present.




LN just destroyed a 10,000 CS horde, watched about the same numbers pour into Fissoan lands, and we are currently dealing with a horde that was up to 22,000 CS last time we checked... Believe me when I say I'd rather be fighting other realms :P

Victor C

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #13: May 31, 2016, 03:33:26 AM »
LN just destroyed a 10,000 CS horde, watched about the same numbers pour into Fissoan lands, and we are currently dealing with a horde that was up to 22,000 CS last time we checked... Believe me when I say I'd rather be fighting other realms :P

So from what I'm seeing... you are desperately trying to hold onto your land, when it is obvious someone doesn't want you to have it?

You are literally fighting EXTREMELY OVERSIDED HORDES that do NOT typically spawn anywhere else... to hold onto to your POWER!

(I'm sorry if I seem a bit aggressive... I just couldn't resist pointing it out Q Q forgive me... I'm kind, I swear to you!)

There is plenty reason to fight others now. NOW is the time to push claims, NOW is the time to settle vengeance, NOW is the time to make change. EVERYONE is weak from being pummeled by hordes!

This isn't all directed at you at all Sacha, but to all of us playing on Dwilight...

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, relinquish me of my ignorance. Please be gentle ;P
"The greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one that gets the people to do the greatest things." - Ronald Reagan

jaune

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Re: SA vs ES
« Reply #14: May 31, 2016, 06:52:02 AM »
Problem with that is, while you attack others, those hordes make claim to your lands. You dont send armies to war abroad, while your home is burning.

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