Author Topic: Admin/Mod Moderation  (Read 8117 times)

Vita`

  • BM Dev Team
  • Honourable King
  • *
  • Posts: 2558
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #15: June 20, 2016, 09:44:48 AM »
Quote
My point is that BM is pretty much all volunteers at this point since Tom has moved on to other projects.
The founder is still a volunteer. There were a lot more volunteers when Tom was still involved than when he was not. There seems to be a growing cultural divide of players vs devs of late, when it used to be a much more shared effort where devs were all players and any player would contribute where they'd see fit. That's how Dwilight was created. Darfix starting the project, I think Giask worked on map, players came up with all the region names and did various other bits before Tom and Devs finally took it up. I think last December would've been the 10-year-anniversary of Darfix's first email proposing the West Continent, as it was then known.

Vita, is there an appeal process in place for forum issues?  It seems by your statement that there may be more working on moderation here other than Timothy which was my original understanding.  If so, can we have that somewhere to make it clearer for players so that they understand better?  If not, then I apologize for any confusion.
I think that may imply more of a system than exists. It's not so much like a legal/court system where you appeal to correct a criminal label applied to you as much as cutting out derogatory, insulting posts. A slightly more detailed explanation...

We have the Forum Rules of Conduct. Anaris and I have adminship of forum. We used to have more global mods and board mods that actively enforced the rules. With their gradual departure, enforcement grew lax. Also, international game, many subjective standards on what is acceptable/offensive, and maintaining a middle path of both being considerate in speech and not being overly-sensitive. I recently added a new mod to various boards to re-enforce the rules. There may be room for more mods.

The mod powers are relatively limited, in terms of enforcement. One can warn the user, increasing their warn level between 0% and 100%. At certain levels, a notification to mods is added to all their posts of a high level, they cannot post anymore et cetera. Over time, it decreases back to 0. When I moderate posts, I generally do it on a per-post basis adding a small amount. Others prefer to just apply one large increase to cover general behavior/multiple posts. If the post is particularly offensive, I may edit out the offensive parts and leave a red moderator notice.

So when you say 'appeal', appeal what exactly? A moderate saying 'hey, cut out out the insults!' and increasing your warn level to get your attention that hey, cool it off a bit? We all have moments and admins have had their warn levels increased at times too. And again, warn levels decrease over time. I guess I see it more as a measurement of poor forum etiquette. Particularly egregious individuals may find themselves banned from forum, which makes more sense for an 'appeal', but such bans are quite rare. In any case, Anaris or I would be the ultimate stop for any concerns. Or Tom, but it best be a very, very good reason. But as you/daviceroy mentions, since we're currently the primary mods (plus the other new one), its most likely to receive further explanation more than anything else. Still, if the initial warning message did not explain why you were warned or you felt mod misunderstood situation, that cannot hurt.

While we are on the topic of appealing/bringing one's attention to wrongdoing, let me draw everyone's attention to the 'Report to Moderator' link at the bottom of every message. If there is content that violates the Forum Rules of Content (especially is insulting, derogatory), please report it. This gives a notification to moderators that gives a link to increase the warn level of a user. This alerts us that there is an area of concern to give our attention to. I realized, after promoting a new mod, that despite people stating their concern over insulting behavior, there are practically no moderator reports on any message, for months at a time. While moderators can certainly go looking for derogatory posts, its a whole lot easier to check the interface built for those reports.

Regarding the specifics of moderation sparking this event, hopefully not being too far off the mark as I have not been paying the closest attention last few weeks, I think what happened was... we have been attempting to enforce moderation of the board more proactively in last few weeks resulting in increased warnings and a new mod added, insults were given on both sides of some forum disagreement, a mod warned users for such, since the increase of warn levels isn't broadcast to all but only the person warned assumptions were made that only some parties received warnings and not all parties. So yes, in an effort to re-enforce the rules and remembering that only the warned person receives the warning so you do not know who else was warned, it is possible warnings were applied on posts that would not have received them when moderation wasn't being enforced as actively.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 09:58:13 AM by Vita »

Andrew

  • M&F's Anaris
  • Administrator
  • Noble Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 324
  • Sometimes, With A Bopping Stick
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #16: June 20, 2016, 12:46:29 PM »
Dwilight as a concept should be closer to 11 than 10 years now. I remember making a really nooby comment on the wiki shortly after I discovered it and that would've been really, really early 2006 or late, late 2005.

Anyways, Vita, since I'm apparently coming around here more, and the forums are looking to merge soon(tm) anyways, I'm willing to help out with running this forum. I'm already administrating the Might & Fealty forum, so I doubt Tom would have any issues with me helping out here as well, if you need it. Along that same line, I host/run the M&F Fan Wiki, for whatever that's worth.

And to expand on the "Report to moderator" link, for everyone's awareness, that sends an email to every applicable moderator, global moderator, and administrator on the forum. If you see people fighting, report it. Looks like spam? Report it. Not sure if it is or isn't something to report? Report it and a mod will read it.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 01:04:05 PM by Sargon_Tian »
Like my programming? Become my patron!

daviceroy

  • Knight
  • **
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #17: June 21, 2016, 04:17:31 AM »
It is my opinion that calling Tom a "volunteer" is a bit misleading.  After all, he is the creator of BM and pays the bills for the game last I understood.  He also was the receiver of financial support (via donations).  Not sure if he still continues to receive donations for BM, but everything still pointed to him.  Whether he made a profit personally off of BM or not, it's his brain child.  He started East Island (or Continent) and while Dwlight is an example of his vision for BM which included player contributions, it should not be taken lightly that if Tom hadn't done work prior to this there could have been no Dwilight.  If my math is correct, BM had been worked on for 5 years prior to Dwilight.  In the end, if Tom decides to pull the plug on BM, BM is gone.  Timothy and yourself, being volunteers on the project could be replaced.  (Not saying you should be of that you want to).

It's quite possible that the growing divide you mention is partly due to the fact that Tom doesn't run the game any more.  More than one player has gotten the impression that BM is currently ran by people who don't share Tom's passion.  Whether this is true or not of Timothy is outside of my ability to say.  I don't always agree with the decisions made by the admin team here, but again I don't expect to.  It's the nature of any game.  I can say that there are disappointing things that have happened that I wish hadn't.  BM isn't nearly as fun as it used to be for me.  It's more of a struggle to get people active and do things than it has been in the past.  I've noticed players that are going through the motions more now.

Another impression that some have is that their concerns are falling in the cracks.  I can't say that I've had this issue, but it has been said in the forum that there was a Titan review with no response in 2 weeks.  Now, I can respect that the Admin team may have been reviewing the situation and RL got in the way or something else, but it is something that can give the impression that the Admin team may no longer have the passion to handle these issues.  Again, I want it clearly known that I haven't had this issue personally.

Quote
I think that may imply more of a system than exists. It's not so much like a legal/court system where you appeal to correct a criminal label applied to you as much as cutting out derogatory, insulting posts.

I think that may also be where the divide is stemming from.  Players (especially newer ones) are used to a Customer Service model for games (even those ran by individuals).  Not having a clean "chain" of command frustrates them and may give a false impression of a lack of customer service.  It's like if you go to a grocery store and have a price come up differently than advertised and the cashier refuses to give you it, you can "appeal" that decision to a supervisor/manager.  A chain of command per se.  Whether that is considered something that the admin team would consider, that I leave to you all.

Quote
The mod powers are relatively limited, in terms of enforcement. One can warn the user, increasing their warn level between 0% and 100%.

I appreciate you explaining the warning system.  I haven't gotten a warning yet here in the forums, but had never really looked into the system myself.

Blue Star

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 418
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #18: June 21, 2016, 05:44:43 AM »
Vita,

Thank you for the brief insight.
I think like a sinner. Curse like a sailor. Smile like a saint. :)

JDodger

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #19: June 21, 2016, 07:01:29 AM »
 call that brief?   ???
By the way, would love to see you coordinate three realms without having an OOC teamspeak with everyone on it.

Vita`

  • BM Dev Team
  • Honourable King
  • *
  • Posts: 2558
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #20: June 21, 2016, 11:09:14 PM »
I guess my point with pointing out Tom as volunteer is that BattleMaster was always a hobby of his spare time away from real life work. Just like the rest of us. While Tom has absolutely done the most lines of code and laid the foundation of what BM is today, it cannot be forgotten that there were quite a few other volunteer devs in the early days also making BM what it is today.

Decisions can and have been reassessed (recently, moving capital restrictions were recently adjusted for new situations that have arisen, drop functionality being removed for advies), so it doesn't hurt to bring it up. But yes, there is beating the horse to death too.

Quote
It's more of a struggle to get people active and do things than it has been in the past.  I've noticed players that are going through the motions more now.
I think people are too spread out and unengaged compared to what BM used to be. This is why I have been advocating more, smaller realms with closer neighbours for closer wars with quicker refits and trying to rebalance the realm sizes from the empires that grew up. More battles and less marching is better than fewer battles and more marching. Also, more positions for people because more realms and becaues more realms, more peers across the continent. More people to affect continent diplomacy than with fewer realms/governments.

But that affects how many people you can talk to in your realm. So the other half is fewer and larger religions and guilds spread through multiple realms that can be used to share roleplays, news from around the continent, politics etc. I think, per continent 2-4 religions is probably about right. I see religion less as a group of 'allied', but more cultural and independent of realm politics. Guilds, Colonial Senate is one example for a smaller island that is nice. Royal Rangers works well on Dwilight as an intercontinental, realm-impartial advy guild, there's probably more elsewhere.

Quote
Another impression that some have is that their concerns are falling in the cracks.  I can't say that I've had this issue, but it has been said in the forum that there was a Titan review with no response in 2 weeks.
Yes it happens. Busy volunteers, whether the Titans themselves, or the Admins. Bringing it to our attention when it happens is the best way to deter it. New Titans are being added to improve responsiveness.

Quote
I think that may also be where the divide is stemming from.  Players (especially newer ones) are used to a Customer Service model for games (even those ran by individuals).  Not having a clean "chain" of command frustrates them and may give a false impression of a lack of customer service.  It's like if you go to a grocery store and have a price come up differently than advertised and the cashier refuses to give you it, you can "appeal" that decision to a supervisor/manager.  A chain of command per se.  Whether that is considered something that the admin team would consider, that I leave to you all.
Well, we were discussing forum moderation. In terms of Titan cases, there is an email provided to appeal decisions. But generally speaking, it would have to be rather exceptional to not support those we selected as Titans. Even locked multis are encouraged to email us to provide an explanation of their innocence.

I am glad for the willing volunteers. I'm sure Tom will set Andrew up since forums are beign merged anyway. Jdodger, was there anywhere in particular you had an interest more specific than not-coding?

JDodger

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #21: June 22, 2016, 11:12:12 AM »
what do you need done, im a decent writer and a good people organizer
By the way, would love to see you coordinate three realms without having an OOC teamspeak with everyone on it.

JDodger

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #22: June 22, 2016, 11:21:51 AM »
pm me or we can talk on irc
By the way, would love to see you coordinate three realms without having an OOC teamspeak with everyone on it.

Wimpie

  • Developer
  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1777
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #23: June 22, 2016, 11:35:53 AM »
What I would like to see done is the following:

  • Recreation of a map, more in particular, Dwilight, a topic was created for this.
  • One of my other frustration map-wise is the political map of Colonies. That needs serious work, but I am unsure what needs to be done to get it right again (since regions were split up or were pasted together or something?). I can't handle the fact that in my travel menu I don't see where I am going.. You'd need to enter dynamic map, click 'Names' layer so you can see the actual regions.
    If either Tim or Ethan could comment on what needs to be done for that (if a volounteer actually can help on this), that would be awesome.
  • People who post bugs on the bugtracker are my heroes. Thanks for doing so. We are investigating them, but it takes time. However, we do require feedback from time to time. So please go to your profile settings and check the notification tab so you are notified when we require your assistance. Or just check your own bugs once in a while. It happens too regularly that bugs remain in status 'Feedback' because we need extra information, but never receive it.
Osgar (Thalmarkin, BT), Jeames (Perleone, EC)
PAUSED: Nasgar (Avernus, DWI), Jari (Outer Tilog, COL)

JDodger

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #24: June 22, 2016, 11:42:29 AM »
colonies map is awesome
By the way, would love to see you coordinate three realms without having an OOC teamspeak with everyone on it.

Wimpie

  • Developer
  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1777
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #25: June 22, 2016, 11:48:40 AM »
Glad someone likes it!  8)
Osgar (Thalmarkin, BT), Jeames (Perleone, EC)
PAUSED: Nasgar (Avernus, DWI), Jari (Outer Tilog, COL)

Blue Star

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 418
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #26: July 01, 2016, 02:42:50 AM »
Thread high jacked. :o
I think like a sinner. Curse like a sailor. Smile like a saint. :)

Andrew

  • M&F's Anaris
  • Administrator
  • Noble Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 324
  • Sometimes, With A Bopping Stick
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #27: July 11, 2016, 05:24:42 PM »
Andrew casts Necromonthready & un-jack.

Figured I'd bring this back on track and say hello and stuff now that I've settled in to my role.

Hello, for those who don't know, I'm Andrew. I'm your new Forum Administrator, and will remain so after the merge (whenever that happens, hopefully soonâ„¢). Based on the discussions, I have assumed most responsibilities for the administration and moderation of this forum as a whole. Unless something crazy happens, the other admins (Tom, Vita, Anaris) will probably step away from moderating things to better focus on their other roles. Which is great, because if they don't have to break up fights, they'll be happy, and happier devs dev more. Or so I'm told.

What this means though, is if you have issues on here, bring it up to me. If it's with me, send a PM to Tom, Vita, or Anaris, and we'll work it out. I can most likely even forward non-forum issues, like those about the game or the wiki, to the right place.

Any questions?
Like my programming? Become my patron!

steelabjur@aol.com

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: Admin/Mod Moderation
« Reply #28: July 13, 2016, 08:08:15 AM »
What I would like to see done is the following:

  • Recreation of a map, more in particular, Dwilight, a topic was created for this.
  • One of my other frustration map-wise is the political map of Colonies. That needs serious work, but I am unsure what needs to be done to get it right again (since regions were split up or were pasted together or something?). I can't handle the fact that in my travel menu I don't see where I am going.. You'd need to enter dynamic map, click 'Names' layer so you can see the actual regions.
    If either Tim or Ethan could comment on what needs to be done for that (if a volounteer actually can help on this), that would be awesome.
  • People who post bugs on the bugtracker are my heroes. Thanks for doing so. We are investigating them, but it takes time. However, we do require feedback from time to time. So please go to your profile settings and check the notification tab so you are notified when we require your assistance. Or just check your own bugs once in a while. It happens too regularly that bugs remain in status 'Feedback' because we need extra information, but never receive it.

Regions were split, Steepglades became Highglades and Steepglades, and Nidalery became Reckrandi and Nidalery, for example. I doubt it would require more than some names being erased and recentered and others added to the map to bring it inline with the game world. Somebody with more photoshop skills than I could probably fix it up with little problem.