Inalienable Rights case - please help judge

[Noone you know]

This case has been waiting 17 days without response from the Titans & now the Colonies Island Senate needs some feedback on it to continue playing, so perhaps the player base can help clarify (I have formally withdrawn it as a Titans Case):

In Summary:

The Colonies have some sort of island-wide agreements in place, one of which is that you cannot be an infiltrator except in the Assassins Realm. I have challenged this on the basis that it violates your right to choose what class you want to play:

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights

The inalienable rights are:

    Playing at your own speed, timing and activity level, i.e. logging in as often or seldom as you like, at whatever times you like.
    Choosing which type of unit to command
    Going to tournaments
    Pausing your character(s) because you have a real life to attend to
    Choosing your class

The inalienable rights are defended with extreme prejudice. There's one simple reason for that: The second they were opened up to discussion, interpretation, exceptions, borderline cases, etc. the lawyer-weasels and others who get a thrill out of gaming the system would invade like locusts.

Absolutely no violations of inalienable rights will be tolerated, no matter how minor or inconsequential. Absolutely no interpretations will turn a violation into a non-violation. Absolutely no "I didn't mean it" apologies will prevent the punishment - if you are the guilty party, consider it a lesson for next time and a reassurance that you yourself will be equally aggressively defended should someone else attack your inalienable rights.
 

To me this seems pretty straightforward - the rulers can make an agreement if they like (this is Roleplay) but cannot actually enforce or punish - directly or indirectly - players for being infiltrators or carrying out normal infiltrators against realms they are at war with.

By "direct action" - You cannot be an infiltrator, so you are banned

By "indirect infiltrator" - We think it is ignoble to stab an enemy noble while not on the battlefield, so you are banned.

Thoughts?
 

[Sacha]

The inalienable rights are defended with extreme prejudice.

Seems to me this is the relevant bit. Restricting classes is a no-no, for whatever reason.

[JDodger]

pretty sure it just means infils from other than assassins are free to be banned etc.

[Noone you know]

pretty sure it just means infils from other than assassins are free to be banned etc.

No, I've been approached by three separate rulers when I was in their realms telling me I had to change class because of the agreement. It means exactly what it says.

[Constantine]

Titans are the only people who are in a position to enforce the rules.
I honestly don't understand what you are trying to achieve by withdrawing the complaint and instead starting a forum discussion thread. Reverse order would have made more sense.

[Gabanus family]

No, I've been approached by three separate rulers when I was in their realms telling me I had to change class because of the agreement. It means exactly what it says.

Actually this Senate law has already been changed recently.

Everyone is now free to be an infil in any realm, but if you are not in the assasin's realm, you run the risk of being banned and executed etc. At least that's what I've been told and I in fact have the only known infil outside of the assasins at this point to my knowledge and I actually do find myself in jail right now, humpfff

[JDodger]

No, I've been approached by three separate rulers when I was in their realms telling me I had to change class because of the agreement. It means exactly what it says.

you obviously didnt try wetham or oritolon. i think this is a case of individual rulers misinterpreting the terms of the treaty (and being ignorant of IRs).

assassins being the only "legal" infil realm has existed for a long time. i dont think the titans just missed this continent wide treaty.

so its probably an issue you should pursue in regards to those rulers, not the treaty.

[Noone you know]

Titans are the only people who are in a position to enforce the rules.
I honestly don't understand what you are trying to achieve by withdrawing the complaint and instead starting a forum discussion thread. Reverse order would have made more sense.

you didn't read the first post very carefully, then.

Actually this Senate law has already been changed recently.

Everyone is now free to be an infil in any realm, but if you are not in the assasin's realm, you run the risk of being banned and executed etc. At least that's what I've been told and I in fact have the only known infil outside of the assasins at this point to my knowledge and I actually do find myself in jail right now, humpfff

that's perfect then, case closed :-)

My ruler didn't seem to know that

[James]

Senate law didn't change, it has always stated that infiltrators should be encouraged to join Assassins if they want to have the protections afforded there (no execution and such) whereas infiltrators who choose to stay in other realms can be tortured/executed/deported as others see fit.

The information has been written on main board and internal boards of the senate for a very long time, just been misinterpreted recently.

As for bans, you had to leave Outer Tilog because you kept stabbing Outer Tilog nobles and refused to stop. Why would a realm keep you if you keep attacking its own nobles?

[Wimpie]

I don't support such restriction of any kind.

And before you are going to reply that you aren't restricting anything, banning someone because (s)he has a certain class, is doing the exact same thing.

I'm not sure, though, what the Titans are doing these days.

[JDodger]

they mean banning infils when you catch them doing stuff, like any other continent, not banning your own noble just because hes an infil

[GundamMerc]

I don't support such restriction of any kind.

And before you are going to reply that you aren't restricting anything, banning someone because (s)he has a certain class, is doing the exact same thing.

I'm not sure, though, what the Titans are doing these days.

The IRs respect your right to choose whatever class you want. It does not protect you from the consequences of it. Seeing as IC banning can be done for literally ANY reason, the judge can just ban you for being a dishonorable git. Being banned from your own realm isn't going to be breaking IRs.

[steelabjur@aol.com]

I don't support such restriction of any kind.

And before you are going to reply that you aren't restricting anything, banning someone because (s)he has a certain class, is doing the exact same thing.

I'm not sure, though, what the Titans are doing these days.

If I'm a ruler or judge I can ban a character because the day started with a "T" and there was a "Y" in their name, if that's the way I want to play my character holding that position. Playing where you want isn't a IR and the player was told to change class OR be banned, he can continue to be an Infiltrator but he risks catching a ban.

[Anaris]

A judge can ban any character for any reason except the reasons protected by the Inalienable Rights.

If the IRs don't prevent you from being banned for exercising them, then what the hell do you think they do?

No, you cannot ban someone simply for being an infiltrator. You can ban them if they stab people in your own realm (as happened in this case), or if they otherwise stab people you don't want them to stab, but if you ban them for being an infiltrator, you will lose your position.

[Chamberlain]

On a similar point.

One of my characters, a priest has been living quite happily in a realm that has no laws against founding religions.

The judge of the realm has never been very inclined toward this character and has probably in response to an IC argument has literally produced a bunch of laws limiting rights to preach etc. therby limiting this character massively.

This seems like a definite abuse of power, is definitely personal since I am the only priest in the realm therefore the only character effected by these laws.

Essentially this could make my character more or less unplayable.  Is this against IR's or just an abuse of position?