Author Topic: Greater Xavax Imperium  (Read 100127 times)

JDodger

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #45: July 11, 2016, 04:24:52 AM »
sigh...

"i cant speak for why fallangard was kept out of the war. ......so ill let jevondair explain why selenia kept fallangard out and eat a big ol' grain of salt as i read the explanation."

this was the point you decided to argue/complain about?

i have heard literally no complaints from xavax players about any moral high ground perdan is trying to claim (which they have not at any point). i have seen lots of complaints about gangbanging and the rather brutal tactics used. also these complaints only started when xavax began demonstrably losing the war.

so again, the only saltiness in this situation for me is the big grain i take every time you write something. mmm, salt!
Why then Selenia should DEFINITELY come to visit? Richer AND Happier you say? That must be seen to be believed.

Licinius

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #46: July 11, 2016, 04:31:30 AM »
What irritates us is how Vix and Perdan players assume a moral high ground, painting themselves as white knights while conveniently ignoring the IG nature of who they've come to defend.

Everyone justifies their actions before the eyes of the many, it is human nature to do so.
In an argument, everyone is desperately trying to convince the other that they are right, hence moral high ground.
Something along those lines, bah I can't argue well.

Take pride it took so many to bring down a behemoth(Greater Xavax)

In war, truth is the first casualty. One thing in Battlemaster I enjoy is information, true or false information is always circulated thus arguments such as these appear.

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Zakilevo

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #47: July 11, 2016, 05:51:10 AM »
Silly JeVondair.

Of course your enemies are going to paint themselves with the whitest paint they can find.

This is why justice always prevails because justice is on the winner's side.

steelabjur@aol.com

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #48: July 11, 2016, 06:40:56 AM »
Silly JeVondair.

Of course your enemies are going to paint themselves with the whitest paint they can find.

This is why justice always prevails because justice is on the winner's side.

I believe JeVondair is speaking of the players trying to paint their involvement as something noble, not the characters they play. IE, that they're supporting some "small kingdom" initiative, despite being part of one of the largest realms on the island. Stuff like that.

Schancke

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #49: July 11, 2016, 08:59:14 AM »
if magnus' actions hadnt brought on the rebellion and if selenia hadnt betrayed the rebellion to clear her path to rulership, if kellan had remained general, alara would not be around now. my strategy of focusing all effort on taking Itorunt would have been implemented and would have succeeded, byebye alara.

the confidence...

Gabanus family

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #50: July 11, 2016, 09:20:47 AM »
...i have seen lots of complaints about gangbanging and the rather brutal tactics used. also these complaints only started when xavax began demonstrably losing the war...

Actually, if you read back through the last topic as well, you'll find that there are actually quite some players from realms outside of Xavax (like myself) who 'complaint' or showed disapproval with Perdan's actions as soon as they declared war. So this is factually incorrect actually. And with all due respect, but the Jevondair player seems to be the most neutral/realistic/orwhateveryouwishtocallit about this all when we look at the players who are actually in Perdan or Xavax, although Constantine does a decent job as well from my point of view at least in responding to these points and the attitude they put in here at least.

Again, I too speak from an outsider perspective as the Theocracy of Ibladesh was the last realm I inhabitated even near the south.
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Vita`

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #51: July 11, 2016, 10:11:25 AM »
Quote
Then King Warchief
FWIW, I also clearly remember his first letter to all rulers being along the lines of 'I want to ally with all of you, lets have friends with everyone, war is bad mmkay'.

Quote
We don't really care if we are losing now, that's the nature of the game, tides turn. We don't really care that Vix and Perdan intervened, it made the game even more challenging and there's a certain pride that it took so many to drive us back.
I miss this old BM attitude of 'we will take what you can throw at us, just because we can then claim to have overcome it after its all over'. This used to be the dominant player reaction of BT Invasions. This was what I enjoyed about Luria when all Dwilight sought to conquer it.

Quote
Everyone justifies their actions before the eyes of the many, it is human nature to do so. In an argument, everyone is desperately trying to convince the other that they are right, hence moral high ground. Something along those lines, bah I can't argue well.
Most people find it very difficult to say they are or were wrong. Even people that are perfectly alright with such humble confessions can have a kneejerk response to someone making a counter-point (unconsciously seeking justification). But people are not inherently unwilling to change their mind, just that most often they need to think they changed their own mind. Hence why asking questions and approaching issues from another's perspective helps 'incept' an idea into one's head more than telling them they are wrong (which is implied when one disagrees).

Constantine

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #52: July 11, 2016, 12:27:27 PM »
How does one 'steal' a city from a realm that declared war on them and attacked them?
By bribing the bureaucrats of course.
We don't really care if we are losing now, that's the nature of the game, tides turn.
Unfortunately this attitude is not shared by many of your fellow players which sparked the new spiral of this discussion in the first place. Unless you're using the royal We, in which case, fair enough.
That being said, I found your "please stop writing IC letters because this makes my players insult you OOC" message highly questionable.
I believe JeVondair is speaking of the players trying to paint their involvement as something noble, not the characters they play. IE, that they're supporting some "small kingdom" initiative, despite being part of one of the largest realms on the island. Stuff like that.
If we look at the game from OOC perspective, I think it is fair to say that the most important stats are not the raw number of regions per realm but noble/region density and number of cities per realm. In my opinion it is fair to draw the line at 1:1 noble/region count and more than two cities per realm. This ensures realms will not cling on to regions they can not even provide with lords and even densely populated realms will never become too powerful to ever be tackled like certain realms on Atamara. I wouldn't say I feel ennobled by supporting this mindset, but I do think it is a constructive one.

GundamMerc

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #53: July 11, 2016, 04:07:41 PM »
By bribing the bureaucrats of course.Unfortunately this attitude is not shared by many of your fellow players which sparked the new spiral of this discussion in the first place. Unless you're using the royal We, in which case, fair enough.
That being said, I found your "please stop writing IC letters because this makes my players insult you OOC" message highly questionable.If we look at the game from OOC perspective, I think it is fair to say that the most important stats are not the raw number of regions per realm but noble/region density and number of cities per realm. In my opinion it is fair to draw the line at 1:1 noble/region count and more than two cities per realm. This ensures realms will not cling on to regions they can not even provide with lords and even densely populated realms will never become too powerful to ever be tackled like certain realms on Atamara. I wouldn't say I feel ennobled by supporting this mindset, but I do think it is a constructive one.

On East Island, where certain mountain regions or flavor-named regions can have just as much income as a city, this is largely misleading. For example, let's look at Perdan shall we? They have two cities, yes? But oh, what's this? They also have Perdan Mines, Bescanon, Bisciye, and Clermont; all regions that earn more than 600, and in the case of the first two, as much as the smaller cities of the continent. Perleone had two cities itself. The problem with trying to protect Alara and Minas Nova out of some misguided "small realm protection"; which is highly hypocritical in the first place, what with Perdan being one of the largest realms on the continent, the largest if you include their puppet Vix; is that all you get out of it are two realms who are too small to !@#$ing be self-sufficient. A realm needs at least two small cities or one large city to support a large enough army to defend itself, and Alara/Minas Nova can do neither of these things. I could see that when I joined Alara when it formed, yet the players who were there refused to open their eyes. They were still acting like they were on Atamara.

Vita`

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #54: July 11, 2016, 04:25:25 PM »
I tend to be for much smaller realms than Gundam is advocating down south, but I do concur with his point upon Perdan's size and wealth, especially after crushing Eponllyn. Perdan Mines, Perdan, and Bescanon are super wealthy. And the rurals are super productive and in the prime location to sell both north and south, even after feeding Perdan and Westmoor. The mountains around Castle Ubent are ridiculously wealthy, just like Swordfell's mountains.

The Partora-Aix-Perdan area is ripe for conflict with a single region between each city and I looked forward to that when Eponllyn held Perdan. I had hoped to one day break Partora off into its own realm so we could have three capitals separated by a single region. I thought that might be a very intriguing area for fast-paced war. Ah well...

Anaris

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #55: July 11, 2016, 05:31:12 PM »
Though I gather the immediate concern has passed, I have made some tweaks to looting that should make it much harder for a tiny number of defenders to prevent looting.

I would also like to clarify that when you get the message "X has attempted to loot but defending forces prevented the attempt," if the number of defending forces is small (especially when compared to both region population and number of troops of your realm there), this was your attempt failing a check, not an absolute block.

Try again, and you might be able to loot; other people might, too. Larger units will have an easier time looting against smaller defenders.
Timothy Collett

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Fleugs

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #56: July 11, 2016, 05:45:32 PM »
redacted passive aggressive comments
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 06:05:27 PM by Fleugs »
Ardet nec consumitur.

Anaris

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #57: July 11, 2016, 06:01:23 PM »
The OOC frenzy from this forum spilled over into the game, with titan verdicts being handed out. I would like to thank all who did their very best on this forum to go way beyond what is an acceptable discussion, and keep propagating their (OOC) anger. Thank you for such a nice atmosphere, it is really what we need in Battlemaster.

Please don't descend into snide passive-aggressiveness, Fleugs. That's exactly the kind of behaviour that causes more problems.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Ketchum

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #58: July 12, 2016, 04:05:05 AM »
how about the win above all attitude of xavax?

this was the giant realm fighting midget realms around them with the express goal of destroying and absorbing them to recreate a cagilan empire-style hegemony.

this is the realm that out of the three southern realms formed after the big sink was immediately twice the size of the other two. why? because its proximity to isadril made it the obvious frontrunner to be the strongest of the three. some may have wanted power for good, some may have wanted power for power itself, either way don't play the holier than thou "our enemies are powergaming" card.

this is the realm that blatantly exploits loopholes in the looting code by raising miltiia units WHOSE NAMES REFERENCE THE EXPLOIT. (not today, leave our walls alone, etc)

This is the realm that has launched the saddest and most pathetic ooc attacks I've ever seen in this game and was a nasty ooc environment from the beginning, starting with its first ruler who couldn't even keep (ooc:) from popping up in the middle of paragraphs in his RPs.

This is the realm whose own arrogance and poor leadership put them in the position they are in and now they want to use ooc means to cry, whine and exploit their way out of what their bad ic decisions got them into. Actions lead to consequences, and while Xavax had no problem with that fact when the burden was on Alara MN and Perleone, they can't handle it when the tables are turned.

Xavax deserves to be destroyed and I have no objection to any means used to do so.
Hmmmm... One could never call Xavax a giant realm if we compare all realms on this island. But you could be right, Xavax maybe bigger size than the rest of the southern realms put together. Or nobles numbers.

I do agree about bad IC decisions, probably leadership and diplomacy too. There are many factors why a realm run successfully, since we have been playing Battlemaster for sometime, I think we all know more or less what are the factors. How many often we have heard about "lead by example" in real life, sometimes it can be apply in game. Or maybe Xavax trying to "finish all its opponents in one go" like in "killing 2 birds with 1 stone" phrase? I do not know, but Xavax current position is certainly untenable unless its leaders do something about it.
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GundamMerc

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Re: Greater Xavax Imperium
« Reply #59: July 12, 2016, 05:09:08 AM »
Hmmmm... One could never call Xavax a giant realm if we compare all realms on this island. But you could be right, Xavax maybe bigger size than the rest of the southern realms put together. Or nobles numbers.

I do agree about bad IC decisions, probably leadership and diplomacy too. There are many factors why a realm run successfully, since we have been playing Battlemaster for sometime, I think we all know more or less what are the factors. How many often we have heard about "lead by example" in real life, sometimes it can be apply in game. Or maybe Xavax trying to "finish all its opponents in one go" like in "killing 2 birds with 1 stone" phrase? I do not know, but Xavax current position is certainly untenable unless its leaders do something about it.

Considering Alara did everything possible to provoke Xavax's wrath, I'd say Xavax are hardly the aggressors.