Greater Xavax Imperium

[JeVondair]

Not a dime, no. In fact, the combined economy of Xavax was barely greater than Itorunt alone, even at our height. Far less so, now. Calligus prevented any significant aid from Fallangard right up until Vix and Perdan declared war.

Sayuki quit. Said he was bored. Although how a 5v2 war can be boring is beyond me. So much room for activities!

As for Selenia, protip: She's a proud woman. She buried her husband before she was 20 years old, was killing Alpha's, litches, and hordes of rogues before Robb was even born. At his age, she'd overthrown a tyrant, subdued two neighbors, and forged an Empire. Before coming to Xavax, she'd never been defeated either in duels or on the battlefield. But you were right to fear. Selenia was elected on the platform that she would declare war on Alara. Ironically, plunging Xavax into the fires of war was the only way to save it from tearing itself apart. The only thing Robb could have done would be to appease her, thereby convincing her to attack Perleone instead. But by then, he had already signed an alliance with them. And Robb's rather proud himself, So when King Robb, who himself was a teenager at the time, demanded to be treated as her equal. Well, what followed is history.

The other problem she had with Robb is that she knew about his alliance-building. It became pretty obvious he was building a web that could eventually be used to invade the Imperium from all directions. He proved himself to be a surprisingly savvy diplomat, stunning really, given the marks against him. In trying to secure his defenses, he actually made himself into her biggest threat. What followed, again, is history.

[GundamMerc]

Robb, don't give me some !@#$ about me destroying realms. HD is still alive and kicking (I even helped secure Westfold's place, without whom the war with Swordfell wouldn't even be happening), Luria Boreal was already dying when I got there and when it became evident nothing was going to happen, I decided to mercy kill it so that it wouldn't be holding interesting players in a position of boringness when they could be bringing liveliness to other realms. Don't give me some !@#$ about trying to kill realms when all you were doing was a repeat of !@#$ing Atamara. You kept making excuses about why you couldn't attack Minas Nova, when doing that very thing would have completely satisfied Xavax's requirements for an alliance. Instead you built a web of alliances with every other realm you could convince and, let's not forget this, told me personally that you weren't planning on an alliance with Xavax despite messages to them to the contrary.

You realize that the entire civil war in Xavax was caused by you pretending to want to be allied with Xavax but by leaking your very own messages to the General I proved that you were twirling Magnus around your finger.

JeVondair, I left Xavax because I had no interest in being involved in a gangbang of Atamaran style. I was enjoying it when it was us vs three realms, but the addition of Perdan on top of Vix completely killed any fun I was having.

[JeVondair]

You realize that the entire civil war in Xavax was caused by you pretending to want to be allied with Xavax but by leaking your very own messages to the General I proved that you were twirling Magnus around your finger.

This IS true. Xavax's court was in an uproar when the older nobles (both in terms of character age and player experience) saw that. It was the hair that broke the camels back in terms of trusting Magnus to lead us.

JeVondair, I left Xavax because I had no interest in being involved in a gangbang of Atamaran style. I was enjoying it when it was us vs three realms, but the addition of Perdan on top of Vix completely killed any fun I was having.

Makes sense. That last Perdanite beatdown we got was painful let me tell you.

[steelabjur@aol.com]

Yeah, Minas Nova allied with Alara after war was declared. Warchief actually offered to join Xavax against Alara at first (Aramon is part of a council that Selenia presented the letter to), only going the other way after we refused.

As for Aramon's part, you might be surprised to learn that he was vocally against war with Alara from the start, which was one of the reasons he joined the loyalist faction in the rebellion (the rebel faction consisted mostly of nobles in favor of war with Alara, Kellan Dodger and Grathe Geg chief among them, with also Kuriga heavily favoring the rebel faction until Selenia was persuaded to join the loyalists, none of whom he got along with). He ran against Selenia on a pro-Perleone war platform, and he was resistant to the idea of going to war with Alara until Robb stated that Xavax were cowards, which he took to mean the whole realm, and took it as a personal insult. Which is why he offered King Robb a duel to surrender the first time they encountered each other after war was declared. Ironically, had Robb accepted, I was more than prepared to pressure for peace, Robb lost a lot of respect in Aramon's eyes by ignoring the challenge, and even more for the whole rape and genocide bit (which put him on the level of his brother and Outer Tilog, things he absolutely hates). If he comes across as arrogant, part of it is because he views dirt with more respect than he does Robb, and by extension, Alara.

[Wimpie]

Welcome to the Forum, Robb.

[Robb]

Guys, I gain nothing by lying, it was never my intention to fight Xavax, if Xavax declared war on Perleone I would have declared war on Minas Nova, Xavax never did and I was not going to be the first one, after all Xavax were the ones with a lot of nobles and as has been shown they could deal with the rest of us alone while Alara could not, so the responsibility was entirely on Xavax, even more after rejecting my alliance offer

Now, Kuriga, answer this, why would I trust Xavax and attack Minas Nova when they rejected my alliance proposal? My back would be totally open for them, what guarantee I had they were not going to attack me? You were so keen to attack Minas Nova, you trusted Xavax fully, this lead to me realise, wrongfully or not, that you were in league with them. Before you leaving there were NEVER talks with Minas Nova, that only occured after you left and took Itor Boss with you, when the region wasnt returned after a month THEN talks started with Minas Nova, never before, and even so nothing really happened.

The situation was frustrating, we all wanted something to happen but I think Xavax should have been the one to start since they had more resources and nobles than Alara and Minas Nova combined. Why would I want to war Xavax, 24 nobles vs 15, if we combine Minas Nova and Alara, it was most likely an unwinnable fight, specially with those special forces recruitment centers, and again as shown it was not doable. In the end it is simply, if I trusted Xavax and they backstabbed me Alara was going to be finished, if Xavax trusted Alara and Alara backstabbed them they could deal with this, so again I think the responsability lied in their hands and not ours.

[JeVondair]

Guys, I gain nothing by lying, it was never my intention to fight Xavax, if Xavax declared war on Perleone I would have declared war on Minas Nova, Xavax never did and I was not going to be the first one, after all Xavax were the ones with a lot of nobles and as has been shown they could deal with the rest of us alone while Alara could not, so the responsibility was entirely on Xavax, even more after rejecting my alliance offer

Now, Kuriga, answer this, why would I trust Xavax and attack Minas Nova when they rejected my alliance proposal? My back would be totally open for them, what guarantee I had they were not going to attack me? You were so keen to attack Minas Nova, you trusted Xavax fully, this lead to me realise, wrongfully or not, that you were in league with them. Before you leaving there were NEVER talks with Minas Nova, that only occured after you left and took Itor Boss with you, when the region wasnt returned after a month THEN talks started with Minas Nova, never before, and even so nothing really happened.

The situation was frustrating, we all wanted something to happen but I think Xavax should have been the one to start since they had more resources and nobles than Alara and Minas Nova combined. Why would I want to war Xavax, 24 nobles vs 15, if we combine Minas Nova and Alara, it was most likely an unwinnable fight, specially with those special forces recruitment centers, and again as shown it was not doable. In the end it is simply, if I trusted Xavax and they backstabbed me Alara was going to be finished, if Xavax trusted Alara and Alara backstabbed them they could deal with this, so again I think the responsability lied in their hands and not ours.

There are some assumptions here that are better directed at me, as Selenia's player, to address. And to do that, you need to understand a couple of things about Selenia that may impact your perception of events:

• Selenia left her Empire to come East in order to settle down, start a family, and retire. She even vacationed to Sirion before the Civil War broke out.
• She's always been fundamentally isolationist.
• Her prideful, dominant, alpha attitude means she doesn't back down from challenges and proactively engages threats before they an become a problem the same way adventures hunt monsters before they can become hordes. Starting to see the pattern?
• And one thing you can trust about her is that if she tells you you are a friend, that's as sure a thing as when she tells you that you are an enemy. If you've heard neither, then you're in a dangerous grey area of opportunity.

So now you have some insight into Selenia as a character. Anyway. back to the history class...

She campaigned hard to become Duchess and was content to let someone else take the throne and all it's responsibilities (She backed someone other than Magnus and was surprised when he one by a swing vote).  so when it came time to discuss alliances, she's against having many and was in fact dead set on Caligus. She wanted a strong ally, not a weak one. Magnus rather famously ignored her in favor of Fallangard. Worse, he ignored High Queen Teniel, who later confided to Selenia that the reason she signed an alliance with Alara was because Magnus ignored her. She almost allied with Minas Nova, but King Warchief snubbed her when he refused to meet with her in person, which was her one an only requirement. But I digress. Being isolationist, she neither knew nor cared about anything beyond the borders of her duchy...however, those borders were overcrowded. Expansion was a necessity at the time. And with Magnus removing Fallangard as a potential target, that left Perleone and Alara. Of the two, Perleone did the right thing by making no. sudden. moves.

So now you know about Xavax and why it does or does not have alliances.

Alara drew the short straw for a couple of reasons, but it started with Kuriga warning us of Robb's machinations. Robb's alliance-building made him a threat. And even if those alliances were defensive in nature, they could always be used as an offensive tool. In the opinion of Xavax, it was better to spring the trap before it could be built. Selenia underestimated Robb, however, and moved too slowly. Interestingly enough, the same steps that Selenia could have taken to avoid the wrath of Perdan, Robb could have used to avoid a war with Xavax: Be submissive. Robb could have made every effort to make Selenia happy: State visits, tributes, love poems, whatever.  Instead, he asserted himself as her equal when he wasn't (I will admit here that Selenia did not make it easy for him to appeal to her) and poked her repeatedly...exactly the wrong thing to do to her.

Selenia wanted a war to expand her overpopulated holdings. She NEEDED a war to unite her people under her rule after the Civil War. Robb, more than anything, is what made Alara the natural target. And his actions after the war started is why there is a burning hatred now. His attitude is as much responsible for why Xavax targeted Alara as Selenia's is for why Vix and Perdan targeted her.

[Robb]

Well you cant blame Robb to be honest, a region taken from him and the traitor received in Xavax with open arms, it is hard to behave nicely with a realm that did that and of course in the past rejected the alliance, so the one who grieved the other one first was Xavax, not Alara, as for alliances well Caligus and Alara used each other as a safe mechanism, the alliance with Minas Nova and Perleone came later, I think Perleone was done a little before the war broke out if I am not mistaken and Minas Nova shortly after.

I always thought you were going to come, thus I focused on building the fortress and pack the city with militia, you on the other hand focused on building an army and on those recruitment centers, in the end the fortress paid off and the recruitment centers definitely were really good in battle. When Kuriga left I think the fortress was already done, but he disbanded all the militia in the city before leaving, so I put almost all the gold into rebuilding the militia after all when the war broke there was only 4 of us, well 5 but one priest. In the end something had to happen, given the numbers of nobles Alara had we couldnt initiate anything we needed to wait, it was boring as hell I think two other nobles simply left, but again I blame Xavax lol, I think they were the ones in the driving seat with all those nobles, but maybe I should blame the man and not the realm, maybe it was all Magnus´ fault.

[JeVondair]

We can ALL agree on blaming Magnus 


And I certainly don't blame Robb for being upset. That was perfectly justified. But if you're camping in the woods and one of your campers throws away a sandwich and a Mountain Lion decides to help herself to some of said sandwich, the wiser course is to NOT irritate her.


Then again, my metaphor may not be the best one bc I just googled what to do when a Mountain Lion approaches and apparently the internet agrees with Robb, much to my chagrin...

• Make yourself appear as large as possible. ...
• Make noise. ...
• Act like a predator yourself. ...
• Slowly create distance. ...
• Protect yourself.

Annoyingly, this is more or less exactly what he did...

[GundamMerc]

Well you cant blame Robb to be honest, a region taken from him and the traitor received in Xavax with open arms, it is hard to behave nicely with a realm that did that and of course in the past rejected the alliance, so the one who grieved the other one first was Xavax, not Alara, as for alliances well Caligus and Alara used each other as a safe mechanism, the alliance with Minas Nova and Perleone came later, I think Perleone was done a little before the war broke out if I am not mistaken and Minas Nova shortly after.

I always thought you were going to come, thus I focused on building the fortress and pack the city with militia, you on the other hand focused on building an army and on those recruitment centers, in the end the fortress paid off and the recruitment centers definitely were really good in battle. When Kuriga left I think the fortress was already done, but he disbanded all the militia in the city before leaving, so I put almost all the gold into rebuilding the militia after all when the war broke there was only 4 of us, well 5 but one priest. In the end something had to happen, given the numbers of nobles Alara had we couldnt initiate anything we needed to wait, it was boring as hell I think two other nobles simply left, but again I blame Xavax lol, I think they were the ones in the driving seat with all those nobles, but maybe I should blame the man and not the realm, maybe it was all Magnus´ fault.

Honestly what you did in the end wasn't that big of a deal, it was Vix and Perdan stepping in that ruined the dynamic.

[JeVondair]

Honestly what you did in the end wasn't that big of a deal, it was Vix and Perdan stepping in that ruined the dynamic.

That the dynamic changed only made things more interesting, I think. Xavax was absolutely dominant, but had plateaued. Alara being able to take some of their own back after the Perdan/Vix invasion gives the war a more dramatic flair even if they do not come back. Can Selenia rebuild her shattered Imperium? Can Robb push foward with consecutive victories against Xavax in the field? Will Minas Nova betray Alara to seize Itorunt for themselves? Will Perleone do anything other than sheep farming for the duration?


Stay tuned as the War for the Black City continues!

[GundamMerc]

That the dynamic changed only made things more interesting, I think. Xavax was absolutely dominant, but had plateaued. Alara being able to take some of their own back after the Perdan/Vix invasion gives the war a more dramatic flair even if they do not come back. Can Selenia rebuild her shattered Imperium? Can Robb push foward with consecutive victories against Xavax in the field? Will Minas Nova betray Alara to seize Itorunt for themselves? Will Perleone do anything other than sheep farming for the duration?


Stay tuned as the War for the Black City continues!

That's where we disagree. I would have been fine with just Vix joining. That would have changed things from in our favor slightly to in their favor slightly. Perdan, however, was just overkill. That's like having a Sirion that doesn't suck move in.

[Gabanus family]

That's where we disagree. I would have been fine with just Vix joining. That would have changed things from in our favor slightly to in their favor slightly. Perdan, however, was just overkill. That's like having a Sirion that doesn't suck move in.

Wow, we actually agree for once. Unfortunately however people in BM seem to prefer wars which are overkill, rather than exciting and fun. Those that do their best to keep it even eventually just get screwed. That's a lesson I learned the hard way too.

For now, it is what it is, I doubt such a mentality will change soon.

[JeVondair]

I'd argue it's because nobody submits legitimate Cassus Belli enemy more. It's a song you've heard from me before, and I think it's an important aspect that players, particularly rulers, should focus on more both when declaring war and changing diplomatic status's.


Ask the man on the street in Perdan why his realm marches to war against Xavax...

"We must defend Alara!"
"Why"
"Because Xavax is Imperialistic"
"So?"
"And the Alaran's can't defend themselves"
"So?"
"..."
"Have you actually met an Alaran?"
"...No"
"Really? No family? Friends? Special business interests?"
"No..."
"So why defend someone you don't know?"
"I-"
"Do you have anything to gain? Is Alara paying you?"
"No"
"Did Xavax insult you? Declare War on you? Invade you"
"No they did not"
"Have you ever actually met a Xavax?"
"No, well, except for some refugee nobles from their civil war"
"And do they have any claims on Xavax lands or titles?"
"No"
"So why are you invading Xavax and killing its peope"
"I dunno, war's better than boredom I guess."

[Gabanus family]

I think a large part of Perdan's reason for war is to stop an imperialistic power (other than their own) to rise and become a threat. By putting it down now they save themselves the trouble later when it may cost them much more effort.

So it's more like:

They are imperialistic..
So?
So, they may become a threat to us, and we may not be in the position that we are in now
So it's pre-emptive strike on a prob would be enemy?
Yes, they will loot your lands in the future if we don't fight them now for sure.
hmhmhm, but aren't we making enemies now?
Yes, but they'd prob attack us, plus everyone's attacking them so they can't hold grudges against everyone right?