Author Topic: When will BT sink?  (Read 8693 times)

daviceroy

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When will BT sink?
« Topic Start: July 27, 2016, 09:15:11 PM »
BT is a failing continent overrun and controlled by the Netherworld.  The Netherworld controls over half the regions, has more CS than all the player regions combined (even the two realms that kiss the netherworld's nether), and pretty much ensures that none of the realms can grow unless you kiss their butts.

It's a failed continent.  There is no apparent end to the invasion.  Everytime we do something that we are led to, another problem arises and it's withered away.  The "Daimons" just enforce their will no matter what players try to do.  It's futile.

What can players really do when they can't even match the Daimons anymore?  You start with a 1:1 fight and every day the Daimons grow stronger and we can't recruit due to lack of gold and resources from not being able to grow.  The Daimons take over regions at 3 times the speed we do partly due to their numbers.  If we gain a region, they just take another away at their whim.  They can teleport anywhere without warning.  Hordes of Daimons run rampaint just to force us to stay secluded.

What's the point of BT now?  Pretty much, we must subject ourselves to the will of the Daimons or be broken down.  In the latest episode of this, we were told we could not even have walls over 3 in our city or else they'd break it down.  If the admins don't want us to have fortifications over 3, then please just change the code.  Don't enforce it this way.  It's disheartening.

Right now, player interaction is being killed by this.  The realms can no longer even cooperate as we can't reach each other without getting slaughtered either at home or in transit.  We are all just surviving and barely even doing that.  What fun is there in not being allowed to make any progress?  What fun is there in just always having new "Daimonic" demands enforced upon us because we simply can't beat their recruiting ability?  If we could recruit and heal like them, we might have some chance at just staying around.  Give the players the strength in numbers like the Daimons and we would have taken over the continent already.

Anaris

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #1: July 27, 2016, 09:26:51 PM »
There is no plan to sink BT. So far as I am aware, many people are still enjoying the invasion.

The Netherworld controlling over half the regions is actually a good thing, for a very important reason: If the players controlled those regions, there would be just about enough for every single character to be a Lord. As it stands, the ratio of characters to player-controlled regions on BT is the best in the game.

As for what "the admins want," I still can't wrap my mind around the idea some players seem to have that the Daimons are somehow an arm of our will, and we "want" them to win—that wiping humanity out or subjugating it as fast as possible was actually a goal.

If we wanted the Daimons to rule Beluaterra, we'd just delete your troops. Or set the realm of every region on the continent to Netherworld. Or spawn 100k Daimons in every region. Because we are the admins, we have complete control over the database, and we can literally do anything that the code of the game supports—and even make it support new things if that's what we want.

We actually don't want the Daimons to win. We want the players to have fun. And Beluaterra has always been about struggling against inhuman forces and impossible odds to survive.

If you don't like holding the line against a force you know you can't realistically beat...then Beluaterra might not be for you. And that's OK.

But, um...while I implore you not to think of Daimons' demands as being representative of admin desires, you might want to think a little more about why the Daimons might demand certain things, from an in-character perspective.

Maybe they're demanding that you do things that will leave you unable to effectively hold against them? Maybe they're trying to draw your attention away from something else they're doing?
Timothy Collett

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Victor C

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #2: July 27, 2016, 11:26:40 PM »
BT is meant to be a struggle, that is what it is. In fact, your odds are WAY better than when the mist hit. LITERAL DESTRUCTION that NEVER ended. Watching the map slowly get swallowed.

It is obviously not impossible to beat the Daimons, adventurers have already killed them for you... I actually casted a healing spell and was imprisoned and had it taken away (REALLY MOTIVATES ME TO HELP!  ;D). Probably spark some interaction between your fellow players and enjoy roleplaying as a character fighting against the odds and maybe you'll see why we all like it. If you don't get any interaction, join someone else, because obviously they don't want your help. (A ruler's goal is now to have as many people on their side to defend and attack, if they just let you be bored... That's like torture).

"The greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one that gets the people to do the greatest things." - Ronald Reagan

daviceroy

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #3: July 28, 2016, 12:56:58 AM »
I haven't really heard anyone say they enjoy the invasion anymore other than victor's post.  Most people I've talked with say that it's pointless.  You gain a region, they take it back and then do even more damage.  There's no way to even recouperate from your losses.  I'll give you an example.  Aletha in Creasur has now sqashed the region and torn down the fortifications.  The daimon said that if we try to do rebuild our walls, she'll destroy it down even further plus kill off RC's.  We have no ability to stop her from doing her threat.  Our choice is as follows:

1) Never rebuild it and give up everything we fought for
2) Rebuilt it just to have Aletha tear it down plus a RC

We can't stop them.  It's impossible.  If every single player controlled unit worked together (which will never happen), they'd still not be able to defeat the Netherworld.  They can just recruit and reheal and be twice or 3 times stronger the next turn.  If you check the stats, you see the CS of the realms have fallen quite a bit, but the Daimons seem to only increase.  In the last couple months, it's gone down by a third.

It's true that the controlled regions to player may be best in the game.  However, the money strain from it is causing it where we have to rely on family wealth to even pay units quite often.  With all the various takeovers etc, we don't get gold that way sometimes either.  So, it's creating a vicious cycle of not enough money to recruit and beat downs by an enemy who can seemily always recruit.

As far as why we see that as what you allow is that GM's are the responsibility of admins.  What you allow them to do is your will.  If they did something damaging to what you view as good to the game you would stop them from being a GM.

What's the difference between 100k Daimons in every region and 6k Daimons when we can't get get 6k Humans to come to the fight?  It's not a lack of desire on my part.  After one round, we are severly defeated, the Daimons regroup and get stronger.

Yes, the admins/GM's can do anything they want irregardless of the code.  They have the deck stacked in their favor and laugh at the players who try to follow the game code and win.  It almost reminds me of us being ants and the admin/GM being a kid with a magnifying glass.  "You can beat us... just take it away from us.  You can do it.  I know you can't realistically, but keep trying".  There's nothing to draw us away from as we can't really leave our regions much anymore.  There's little we can do but wait for the next onslaught.  This isn't a matter of just fighting the good fight.  There's no tangible end game and no end to the invasion.  The netherworld has won.  It's taken over and no is playing with the other realms like a kid poking a dying sea creature on the shore.  If we get too close to getting back in the water, we get poked back towards the sand.

BT is meant to be a struggle, that is what it is. In fact, your odds are WAY better than when the mist hit. LITERAL DESTRUCTION that NEVER ended. Watching the map slowly get swallowed.

Actually, that's what it is right now.  The map has been swallowed up.  Every realm who has opposed the Daimons has been shrunk majorly.  The only way to win, actually, is not to play or just give in to the Daimons.  Then, your realm can grow.

Quote
It is obviously not impossible to beat the Daimons, adventurers have already killed them for you.

That would be true if they would stay dead, but they don't.  I enjoyed the epic battle to kill Jactosh against all odds.  But after his death, he rose again.  All the resources and attempts to end it just mean nothing.  It's hard to have a sense of achievement when nothing has visibly changed.

Quote
Probably spark some interaction between your fellow players and enjoy roleplaying as a character fighting against the odds and maybe you'll see why we all like it. If you don't get any interaction, join someone else, because obviously they don't want your help. (A ruler's goal is now to have as many people on their side to defend and attack, if they just let you be bored... That's like torture).

We've tried, but people are tied of role-playing getting defeated every time.  It's the same story over and over again.  Ask anyone who has been around my character and they can tell you we stand in defiance.  They are begging to expand and we keep trying so we can survive better.  But I see people giving up on Rping the same defeat.  Players going more and more into just 5 minute players.

I guess if Anaris thinks everything is okay in BT and this is the way it's supposed to be, then so be it.  I'll accept it if that's what he feels.  Is this true?

Victor C

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #4: July 28, 2016, 01:11:26 AM »
I haven't really heard anyone say they enjoy the invasion anymore other than victor's post.  Most people I've talked with say that it's pointless.  You gain a region, they take it back and then do even more damage.  There's no way to even recouperate from your losses.  I'll give you an example.  Aletha in Creasur has now sqashed the region and torn down the fortifications.  The daimon said that if we try to do rebuild our walls, she'll destroy it down even further plus kill off RC's.  We have no ability to stop her from doing her threat.  Our choice is as follows:

1) Never rebuild it and give up everything we fought for
2) Rebuilt it just to have Aletha tear it down plus a RC

We can't stop them.  It's impossible.  If every single player controlled unit worked together (which will never happen), they'd still not be able to defeat the Netherworld.  They can just recruit and reheal and be twice or 3 times stronger the next turn.  If you check the stats, you see the CS of the realms have fallen quite a bit, but the Daimons seem to only increase.  In the last couple months, it's gone down by a third.

It's true that the controlled regions to player may be best in the game.  However, the money strain from it is causing it where we have to rely on family wealth to even pay units quite often.  With all the various takeovers etc, we don't get gold that way sometimes either.  So, it's creating a vicious cycle of not enough money to recruit and beat downs by an enemy who can seemily always recruit.

As far as why we see that as what you allow is that GM's are the responsibility of admins.  What you allow them to do is your will.  If they did something damaging to what you view as good to the game you would stop them from being a GM.

What's the difference between 100k Daimons in every region and 6k Daimons when we can't get get 6k Humans to come to the fight?  It's not a lack of desire on my part.  After one round, we are severly defeated, the Daimons regroup and get stronger.

Yes, the admins/GM's can do anything they want irregardless of the code.  They have the deck stacked in their favor and laugh at the players who try to follow the game code and win.  It almost reminds me of us being ants and the admin/GM being a kid with a magnifying glass.  "You can beat us... just take it away from us.  You can do it.  I know you can't realistically, but keep trying".  There's nothing to draw us away from as we can't really leave our regions much anymore.  There's little we can do but wait for the next onslaught.  This isn't a matter of just fighting the good fight.  There's no tangible end game and no end to the invasion.  The netherworld has won.  It's taken over and no is playing with the other realms like a kid poking a dying sea creature on the shore.  If we get too close to getting back in the water, we get poked back towards the sand.

Actually, that's what it is right now.  The map has been swallowed up.  Every realm who has opposed the Daimons has been shrunk majorly.  The only way to win, actually, is not to play or just give in to the Daimons.  Then, your realm can grow.

That would be true if they would stay dead, but they don't.  I enjoyed the epic battle to kill Jactosh against all odds.  But after his death, he rose again.  All the resources and attempts to end it just mean nothing.  It's hard to have a sense of achievement when nothing has visibly changed.

We've tried, but people are tied of role-playing getting defeated every time.  It's the same story over and over again.  Ask anyone who has been around my character and they can tell you we stand in defiance.  They are begging to expand and we keep trying so we can survive better.  But I see people giving up on Rping the same defeat.  Players going more and more into just 5 minute players.

I guess if Anaris thinks everything is okay in BT and this is the way it's supposed to be, then so be it.  I'll accept it if that's what he feels.  Is this true?

Apparently you have not been paying attention... All the portals are CLOSED. The Daimons ARE dying. Have you not figured it out?

ADVENTURERS

They have killed the Daimons and you've only said "This sucks, there's no way we can win!"

My friend,

THE SOLUTION IS LITERALLY STARING AT YOU.

Daimons are hunting for ADVENTURERS, the ones who have made significant impacts are ADVENTURERS.

I apologize if I seem a bit "LOOK AT THIS" it's just... I've noticed this for a while and I seem to be in the minority.

When a portal stone opens, guess who runs to it and tries to stop it? DAIMONS.

I can't make it more clear...
"The greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one that gets the people to do the greatest things." - Ronald Reagan

daviceroy

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #5: July 28, 2016, 01:24:33 AM »
Maybe we aren't playing on the same island or something, because the Daimons don't appear to be dying at all.  Jactosh is alive, Akkan is alive, Aletha is alive.  These have been alive.  They don't appear any weaker to any reports I've seen.  They still show up in huge CS groups.  Please, please provide me with any proof of this!  I'd love to be able to see this.  I've begged and pleaded for some sign that it wasn't hopeless.  Every Scribe Report I've seen verifies this point of view.  Do you have any evidence they are weaker?  If so, please tell me.  I want to believe as a player that this isn't pointless.

Last I heard a new portal was opened after Xinjin and Ruffalo closed.  (My adventurer was one that tried to help in that).  I never heard any reports of the new one being closed.

What adventurer has ever killed a Daimon?  The only Daimons I heard killed were by the hand of nobles.

As far as Daimons hunting adventurers, they must be doing a very poor job at it.  They are imprisoning and doing damage mostly to nobles.  My adventurer was unharmed even going through Netherworld controlled areas passing by the Daimons themsevles while my noble has been imprisoned and tortured for being in their own realm.

So, your explanation doesn't seem to hold up with the facts that are visible from here.  I'd be happy to see some other facts even from just an OOC side.

Ketchum

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #6: July 28, 2016, 03:02:29 AM »
What adventurer has ever killed a Daimon?  The only Daimons I heard killed were by the hand of nobles.
I do not know of any adventurer killed a Daimon. I only know of adventurers closing portal like the one Roleplay link below.

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,7127.0.html

Some background on my playing experience before I comment further.

As a first timer player on Belu, I have 1 noble and 1 adventurer there currently and still alive. Previously I started with only 1 adventurer who was killed by undead almost not too long, I think just a few months :'( Then I quit and not play for awhile before I tried again with 1 noble, then add 1 adventurer there.

What my noble see, is what I feel same like daviceroy here. It is like hopeless, end of the world, not a chance, against all odds, all these words. But then if we add my adventurer point of view, I feel there is a chance. Maybe not all adventurers receive same amount of information IC. I think the Daimon or rather "Admins" do leave clues however hopeless and impossible odd our tasks maybe. We need start share information ::)
Werewolf Games: Villager (6) Wolf (4) Seer (3); Lynched as Villager(1). Lost as Villager(1), Lost as Wolf(1) due to Parity. Hunted as Villager(1). Lynched as Seer(2).
Won as Villager(3). Won as Seer(1). Won as Wolf(3).
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Vita`

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #7: July 28, 2016, 04:24:37 AM »
I can't understate how important sharing information is.

Anaris

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #8: July 28, 2016, 04:27:50 AM »
I can't underoverstate how important sharing information is.

T,FTFY

;D
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

GundamMerc

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #9: July 28, 2016, 05:36:56 AM »
Apparently you didn't get the same roleplay we did that occurred to Domina when the main portal was closed.

Gabanus family

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #10: July 28, 2016, 09:29:25 AM »
Wasn't Jacktosh uber wounded or something by Daisha and now had to be finished off by another religion or something?

*Admits to play his noble on BT like a mindless zombie*
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GundamMerc

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #11: July 28, 2016, 03:07:54 PM »
Wasn't Jacktosh uber wounded or something by Daisha and now had to be finished off by another religion or something?

*Admits to play his noble on BT like a mindless zombie*

I think it might have even been peasants after he had been left vulnerable...

Vita`

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #12: July 28, 2016, 03:31:15 PM »
Jactosh was roleplayed as being half-killed by one of two daimonically-corrupted religious items being sacrificed with portal stones and the intense prayers of that religion. Now he's roleplayed in constant, debilitating pain until the second item is sacrified with portal stones and intense prayers. Every breath he takes, is a wasp sting upon his nostril, every step he takes, is a nail through his foot, every move he makes is an explosion in his dermis, every single day and every word he is grates him like cheese, et cetera.

Mechanically, in the day or two before the above event, he was also physically wounded by Yao Ling, which was done after he was travelling into Reeds, so he got seriously wounded stuck in Reeds. Rather backfired on Nothoi. And then they stole his hours after he healed when he tried to leave, so he got pulled back into Reeds.

I had suggested someone post the roleplays on the forum like with the first temple closure, but I don't think it happened.

And again, I emphasize using the existing religions, guilds, and message channels to share information. And yes, I cannot overstate it.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 03:35:41 PM by Vita »

Sacha

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #13: July 28, 2016, 10:39:14 PM »
So even though after all the past invasions, we are still banking on people sharing infrmation... ::)

Vita`

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Re: When will BT sink?
« Reply #14: July 28, 2016, 10:41:23 PM »
So even though after all the past invasions, we are still banking on people sharing infrmation... ::)
Well, its the same as when not in an Invasion. At all times, Invasion and not, share information. This is a game based on text-interaction. Which doesn't happen when you don't share information. It's like complaining about your feet hurting while you shoot them off.