Author Topic: BM Stoners?  (Read 21290 times)

Velax

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • House de Vere
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #30: June 30, 2011, 05:21:28 AM »
haven't smoked the stuff in decade or so

Really? I'd have sworn some of those Sundar RPs must have been done under the influence. :P

Chenier

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 8120
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #31: June 30, 2011, 05:50:16 AM »
Is it lonely up there on your high horse?

Obviously I was exaggerating but the US' drug policies aren't far off from the liberty- encroaching policies of the soviet union. Let me clarify since obviously you don't appreciate subtlety. The soviet union actively policed what kind of music people listened to, while this is more blatant than trying to control which substances one is allowed to ingest into ones body, it basically equates to the same thing: a curtailment of individual liberties by the state

And I was born in the soviet bloc, so don't think I don't know what I'm talking about.

Also, just for the record, the soviet union wasnt communist. Not in any meaningful Marxist way. It was simply dictatorial.

Except music doesn't have negative economic externalities, while drugs do.

Curtailment of individual liberties by the state is necessary. One just decides how far one is willing to go, and on what grounds.
Dit donc camarade soleil / Ne trouves-tu ça pas plutôt con / De donner une journée pareil / À un patron

vanKaya

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #32: June 30, 2011, 10:18:25 AM »
An economic argument against marijuana? Interesting..

The war on drugs in the US I think we can both agree has had no significant effect on the amount of marijuana use in the US. If you want an example of how misguided Reagan's anti-weed efforts were, consider this quote:

“I now have absolute proof that smoking even one marijuana cigarette is equal in brain damage to being on Bikini Island during an H-bomb blast.” - Reagan

Clearly that's not the case since no one has died of marijuana and physicians have not seen any evidence of marijuana killing brain cells ( quite the opposite, cannabis has been shown to effectively combat brain tumors)

But to get back on the economic argument, the US has spent over 15 billion this year alone trying unsuccessfully to keep weed off the streets. This number is astronomic, especially considering  we're only in late June now. When you consider the total amount spent on the drug war the number is easily in the trillions. Think of how much better this money could have been spent if we put it towards proper drug education, not propaganda. And just so we're clear I don't think people should smoke weed, just like I don't think people should drink alcohol or smoke tobacco, all of which have negative effects on your health ( marijuana having the least effect admittedly)

On the flip side, how much money would the government Gain if it were to legalize and regulate cannabis as it does alcohol and cigarettes. The answer is A LOT! Current democrat plans to legalize and regulate weed propose taxing cannabis at $50 an ounce which translates to billions in collective revenue.

So the economic argument is bunk.

And it is not the states job to curtail freedom. It's job is to represent and act in the best interests of the people.
Fyodor, Terran.   Vitaly, Enweil.

Perth

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2037
  • Current Character: Kemen
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #33: June 30, 2011, 10:23:02 AM »
Can this topic be moved? It has had next to zilch to do with Battlemaster since the very first post. lol.
"A tale is but half told when only one person tells it." - The Saga of Grettir the Strong
- Current: Kemen (D'hara) - Past: Kerwin (Eston), Kale (Phantaria, Terran, Melodia)

Chenier

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 8120
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #34: June 30, 2011, 01:12:08 PM »
I already did state that I disagree with the war on it, criminalization is just stupid and costly. It should just be treated like cigarettes as far as I'm concerned.

If the government doesn't curtail some individual freedoms, then individuals will. So you pick between an accountable government to protect everyone from everyone, or letting anyone do absolutely anything they want. It's the principle where everyone's freedom "stops where others' start". To disagree with the government's duty to curtail some individual liberties is to oppose the prohibition of criminal acts. Look at countries where the government is too weak to curtail individual freedoms: warlords do it instead. Usually quite brutally.
Dit donc camarade soleil / Ne trouves-tu ça pas plutôt con / De donner une journée pareil / À un patron

Sacha

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1410
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #35: June 30, 2011, 02:47:11 PM »
Having operated both on the legal (coffeeshop) and illegal (weed dealer) side of the pot trade, I can tell you that governments worldwide are missing out on a LOT of taxable income. Weed is an immensely popular substance, and the amount of money that is being spent on it is mind-boggling. At peak moments, we served 100-150 customers an hour in the shop, sometimes going up to 200. On average they spend about 25-30 euros a head. On quieter days, we still averaged about 50-60 people an hour. Producing one pound of weed costs about 250 dollars... just over 50 cents a gram, no matter its quality. In Dutch shops, a gram of weed will cost you anywhere between 8 and 20 dollars, depending on quality. The shop I worked at was open 12-14 hours a day, every day. You do the math. Some shops attract even more customers. The legendary (and now closed) Coffeeshop Checkpoint served 3,000 customers a day, with regular peaks of up to 5,000. It turned a yearly revenue of 26 million euros, close to 40 million dollars.

The War on Drugs is a lost cause, especially the one on weed. No matter how many manufacturers, dealers and users you put behind bars, people are going to keep manufacturing, dealing and using weed. It's too easy. Not everyone has the resources and the know-how to set up a meth lab, but all it takes to grow a weed plant is a container, some dirt, water and some seeds. Add some nutrients and lighting, and you have a semi-professional set-up. You can intercept a ton of weed at the border, and it'll barely make a dent in the owner's operation. It's a complete waste of tax payers' money and government resources. Instead of hemorrhaging money on fighting a ghost, governments should just accept the fact that people will use cannabis no matter how much you try to prevent them from doing so. It's a widely accepted fact that marijuana is less harmful and addictive than legal narcotics like tobacco, over-the-counter drugs and alcohol. It's no more a gateway drug than the aforementioned three, which you can buy in unlimited amounts if you wanted to. As Katt Williams says, "It only has three side effects: hungry, happy, sleepy. You can't even overdose on it. You might think your buddy's dead, but he ain't dead! He's gonna wake up in 30 minutes, hungry enough to eat everything in your house. Aspirin is perfectly legal but if you take thirteen of them mother!@#$ers it'll be your last headache." In controlled doses, marijuana is a medicine and a natural pain killer. It improves the quality of life of people with chronic, often fatal diseases like multiple sclerosis and cancer. You can even eliminate most of the health risks by not smoking it, and instead using a vaporizer, or extracting the THC and using it as a cooking product.

Hell, it should be a crime /not/ to allow people to use it.

Glaumring the Fox

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2082
  • Nothing
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #36: July 01, 2011, 04:19:18 AM »
Ok ok back on BM topic, how about you all join my guild 'Cult of Bloodmoon' and spread the word of whatever it is you dream up across Dwilight, this can be the quasi-stoner weirdo dreamo guild since it already basically is in concept anyways. And I would appreciate more members to subvert the order of Dwilight.... Shameless self-promotion? Guild house is in Vakreno heaps! ;D
We live lives in beautiful lies...

DoctorHarte

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 593
  • Stoned on BattleMaster
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #37: July 01, 2011, 05:38:18 AM »
Can this topic be moved? It has had next to zilch to do with Battlemaster since the very first post. lol.

Actually, my intentions for this were to create a guild in BattleMaster for stoners, so yes it has something very much to do directly with BM, so I would appreciate it if rather than complain about the location of the topic, Just ignore it! I'm sure it's not that hard to scroll over the link. As always, topics all over this forum get off subject, so have some respect and deal.

Ok ok back on BM topic, how about you all join my guild 'Cult of Bloodmoon' and spread the word of whatever it is you dream up across Dwilight, this can be the quasi-stoner weirdo dreamo guild since it already basically is in concept anyways. And I would appreciate more members to subvert the order of Dwilight.... Shameless self-promotion? Guild house is in Vakreno heaps! ;D

This was kinda what I was thinking of creating, a guild on Dwilight that reflected a newly discovered plant that makes the mind "fly" :P could totally roleplay the hell outta that! I've already talked to Raz about it in OOC and will be joining Terran shortly. Finally, a new horizon and slate for Hyperion!
New Harte Family: Eros (Vix Tiramora, EC), Nyx (Fronen, BT), Chance (Avernus, DW), Scopuli (Gothica, Colonies)

Old Harte Family: Hyperion (Aurvandil, DW), William (IVF, BT), Katrina (Fronen, BT), Callandor II (Ohnar West, FE)

Perth

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2037
  • Current Character: Kemen
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #38: July 01, 2011, 09:50:32 AM »
and will be joining Terran shortly.

Well, at least you're coming to a great realm.  :)
"A tale is but half told when only one person tells it." - The Saga of Grettir the Strong
- Current: Kemen (D'hara) - Past: Kerwin (Eston), Kale (Phantaria, Terran, Melodia)

Nosferatus

  • Testers
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1093
  • Too weird to live, too rare to die
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #39: July 01, 2011, 12:32:29 PM »
Having operated both on the legal (coffeeshop) and illegal (weed dealer) side of the pot trade, I can tell you that governments worldwide are missing out on a LOT of taxable income. Weed is an immensely popular substance, and the amount of money that is being spent on it is mind-boggling. At peak moments, we served 100-150 customers an hour in the shop, sometimes going up to 200. On average they spend about 25-30 euros a head. On quieter days, we still averaged about 50-60 people an hour. Producing one pound of weed costs about 250 dollars... just over 50 cents a gram, no matter its quality. In Dutch shops, a gram of weed will cost you anywhere between 8 and 20 dollars, depending on quality. The shop I worked at was open 12-14 hours a day, every day. You do the math. Some shops attract even more customers. The legendary (and now closed) Coffeeshop Checkpoint served 3,000 customers a day, with regular peaks of up to 5,000. It turned a yearly revenue of 26 million euros, close to 40 million dollars.

The War on Drugs is a lost cause, especially the one on weed. No matter how many manufacturers, dealers and users you put behind bars, people are going to keep manufacturing, dealing and using weed. It's too easy. Not everyone has the resources and the know-how to set up a meth lab, but all it takes to grow a weed plant is a container, some dirt, water and some seeds. Add some nutrients and lighting, and you have a semi-professional set-up. You can intercept a ton of weed at the border, and it'll barely make a dent in the owner's operation. It's a complete waste of tax payers' money and government resources. Instead of hemorrhaging money on fighting a ghost, governments should just accept the fact that people will use cannabis no matter how much you try to prevent them from doing so. It's a widely accepted fact that marijuana is less harmful and addictive than legal narcotics like tobacco, over-the-counter drugs and alcohol. It's no more a gateway drug than the aforementioned three, which you can buy in unlimited amounts if you wanted to. As Katt Williams says, "It only has three side effects: hungry, happy, sleepy. You can't even overdose on it. You might think your buddy's dead, but he ain't dead! He's gonna wake up in 30 minutes, hungry enough to eat everything in your house. Aspirin is perfectly legal but if you take thirteen of them mother!@#$ers it'll be your last headache." In controlled doses, marijuana is a medicine and a natural pain killer. It improves the quality of life of people with chronic, often fatal diseases like multiple sclerosis and cancer. You can even eliminate most of the health risks by not smoking it, and instead using a vaporizer, or extracting the THC and using it as a cooking product.

Hell, it should be a crime /not/ to allow people to use it.

The problems are that once you legalize it, price will drop dramatically as there will be allot more supply(it's easier cheaper and safer to grow) for the demands. (and possibly also lower demands in most countries due to the fact the drug isn't illegal anymore and thus not as cool as meth or cocaine or what ever)
The whole blackmarket willl collapse and the legal market won't even come near to circulate as much money as the illegal one, for weed in Netherlands alone we are talking about billions of euros going to mostly people who really like spending money :P
Thus legalization will defiantly hurt the entire consumers economy(houses, cars, boats, services, and in many cases the other illegal markets) on a scale hardly imaginable.
Many companies in these markets are quite influential and i am sure they understand that legalization (especially of weed and even more cocaine) should never happen for them and that they also actively use there influence to keep the ban in place.
For the politicians (in europe) that do want to change all this, its very hard, cooperation in Europe is almost impossible, we just bicker and bicker until we grow old die and get run over by china and Russia.

Legalization could come from European commissions, if they can beat the big lobbyists in trying to convince the leaders of our nations to legalize drugs.
Atleast i hope so.

Still, just legalizaing, is dangerous.
Its not easy, look what happens with alcohol, it's part of our cultures and society and people do not take it's fatal dangers serious.
Alcohol is extremely dangerous yet normal.
Thorough Education on all these substances is there for essential so people do not use it with the thought of it being harmless.
But then again, making people able to think for them selves is not on the modern political agenda for education(except perhaps Finland).
They prefer the danger signs that just say: "Danger! do not enter!" instead of telling us what the actual danger is so we can judge our course of actions ourselves.

Legalization thus can be dangerous, however leaving the production, transportation, trade and distribution in the hands of crazy criminals is much much more dangerous.
And we all know, a danger sign that says Danger do not enter, is very very interesting, especially on a certain age, at which it is most damaging to do these drugs.(especially for the brain).
The question is, do the people who can make the decision find it worth to sacrifices there economy and do they have the right reports on there desks, who are not signed by some private research company, payed or even founded by those major companies who definitively don't want to sacrifice there business for a better, healthier society. Thats simple not on there stressed out, greedy minds.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 12:41:50 PM by Nosferatus »
Formerly playing the Nosferatus and Bhrantan Family.
Currently playing the Polytus Family in: Gotland, Madina, Astrum, Outer Tilog

vanKaya

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #40: July 01, 2011, 05:55:45 PM »
The problems are that once you legalize it, price will drop dramatically as there will be allot more supply(it's easier cheaper and safer to grow) for the demands. (and possibly also lower demands in most countries due to the fact the drug isn't illegal anymore and thus not as cool as meth or cocaine or what ever)
The whole blackmarket willl collapse and the legal market won't even come near to circulate as much money as the illegal one, for weed in Netherlands alone we are talking about billions of euros going to mostly people who really like spending money :P
Thus legalization will defiantly hurt the entire consumers economy(houses, cars, boats, services, and in many cases the other illegal markets) on a scale hardly




I don't understand your argument on how it would have any effect on other industries. The price of marijuana would indeed drop but the taxes imposed by the state on both the producer and the distributor would essentially bring the price back up. Thus the price of weed per gram may go down a little but probably will stay the same. How this would have any effects on the housing market or the boat market is completely beyond me. It would be an industry just like alcohol or tobacco. The state would tax it, make sure the public knows of its dangers (like warnings on cig packets).

One thing it would have a major effect on is illegal immigration in the states. Does anyone wonder why so many mexicans try and get into the US? It's because Mexico sucks. And do you know why Mexico sucks? Because it's run by drug cartels that have more power than the government meaning two things: they are able to buy politicians and corrupt mexicos government and they are able to effectively combat mexicos military leading to huge wastes of money. Furthermore, the rampancy of Mexican gangs results in tens of thousands of deaths per year. Considering all that, wouldnt you try and hide in a dashboard to be someone's gardener in the "land of the free"

 The cartels gain about 60 % of their money from illegal marijuana distribution. If it was legalized they would take this huge industry and allow it to be placed in legitimate channels. The results?

Mexican marijuana farmers would profit immensely and instead of paying gangbangers for "protection" they could sell their crop legally. This would create an enormous amount of jobs in Mexico and would take away one of the prinicple reasons mexicans leave the country: lack of jobs and lack of security.

The reduction of illegal immigration would have similar positive results in the states. More jobs and less money being wasted on unnecessary !@#$ like border patrol.


But really I don't even know what we're arguing here cause it seems like no one here is even opposed to legalization... Still, information never hurt anyone and god knows we could use less people sheepishly following government propaganda.
Fyodor, Terran.   Vitaly, Enweil.

De-Legro

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #41: July 02, 2011, 11:36:21 AM »
Jeeeez guys, he wasn't promoting it, just seeing who else smokes weed and plays BM.

And the idea that probable cause can come from typing "I smoke weed" on an Internet forum is a ridiculous thing to say.

I could literally walk into a police station high as a giraffe and say "hello officer, as my red eyes and goofy grin suggest, I am baked as a pie. I wanted to ask you how your day was and thank you for all the good work you do in our community"

You know what would happen, they'd search me for weed, maybe. And then when they found none they would let me go, because being high isn't a crime, smoking weed isn't a crime, talking about smoking weed isn't a crime. Possession is a crime. Unless you live in certain parts of the ussr, whoops, I mean USA.

As for the actual topic. Battlemaster is a pretty consistent topic between me and my friends when we're toking. Also, sometimes I'll save writing a long message until after I've smoked a joint, really helps me get into character lol. Also explains why my character is generally very respectful of others and easy to get along with ( I imagine).

Also that's hilarious about the shroomy experience from Allison. I know that last time I did shrooms the concept of BM blew my mind

" it's a world INSIDE a world INSIDE a computer...whoaa... "

Also computers are triply as balls on shrooms.

Actually in many places of South East Asia, simply carrying a few grams of the stuff can put you in line for execution. Then you get to play the fun games of bribery and corruption that makes up their legal systems. The discussion or intent to spread information about drug use can result in pretty serious jail time. Its a trap many tourist fall into.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

vanKaya

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #42: July 02, 2011, 02:21:16 PM »
Right but a lot of crazy things happen I south east Asia. I doubt that's who we should be taking our examples on drug regulation and law making in general from.
Fyodor, Terran.   Vitaly, Enweil.

Vellos

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3736
  • Stodgy Old Man in Training
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #43: July 02, 2011, 05:00:09 PM »
On a sidenote, I work at a camp for elementary school age kids (6-11 years old). In Kentucky, cannabis grows wild ("gully weed"). The southern Appalachians in the US are huge marijuana-growing areas, despite criminalization (they used to be major industrial hemp-growing regions). At the camp I work at, I am the Nature Counselor: I take kids on hikes.

Whenever the kids pick up marijuana and ask what it is, I tell them it's a "very poisonous" plant called "gully weed" (which is a common name for it). In fact, at the camp I work at, I have identified 6 different plants readily usable as drugs. My campers are so oblivious....
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

DoctorHarte

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 593
  • Stoned on BattleMaster
    • View Profile
Re: BM Stoners?
« Reply #44: July 03, 2011, 06:11:56 PM »
On a sidenote, I work at a camp for elementary school age kids (6-11 years old). In Kentucky, cannabis grows wild ("gully weed"). The southern Appalachians in the US are huge marijuana-growing areas, despite criminalization (they used to be major industrial hemp-growing regions). At the camp I work at, I am the Nature Counselor: I take kids on hikes.

Whenever the kids pick up marijuana and ask what it is, I tell them it's a "very poisonous" plant called "gully weed" (which is a common name for it). In fact, at the camp I work at, I have identified 6 different plants readily usable as drugs. My campers are so oblivious....

Dang it! Why didn't my mom send me to camps like those  >:(
New Harte Family: Eros (Vix Tiramora, EC), Nyx (Fronen, BT), Chance (Avernus, DW), Scopuli (Gothica, Colonies)

Old Harte Family: Hyperion (Aurvandil, DW), William (IVF, BT), Katrina (Fronen, BT), Callandor II (Ohnar West, FE)