Rejected: Expand buying regions internally

[Gabanus family]

If the code would remove the restriction on buying regions from your own realm (keep rogue regions in tact of course) then I think we would see much more internal politics, fueds and rivalries in the game within a realm. It would help to remove the always prevalent realm vs realm character and add another char vs char element.

Say the rulers want to appoint noble a as new Lord to a city and he's announced and only has to drop his estate and then realmmate b comes along and says "look at these documents, I have a rightfull claim to the lands, it's now mine" (doesn't even have to mention corruption).

The noble a is pissed at noble b
The council is prob not happy with noble b
Noble b is region Lord, his by right hehe

Ruler now has to decide what to do, ban noble b and see the region defect to another realm prob (but !@#$ it's a city in this case, uhm) or leave him in the position and go "sorry noble a, but he's right, his by right plus he never caused trouble either, we can still make you his duke so you can tax him a lot?"

What happens in that second case, noble a is prob also not so happy with the council and especially not with noble b. Yeah, more conflict!

[Anaris]

The option once allowed buying regions within your own realm; however, what it mostly led to was strife and bannings, not healthy politics.

Particularly with the smaller playerbase, increasing options for intra-realm conflict is the last thing we want to do.

[Vita`]

I think this is one of those 'not going to happen' things.

[Gabanus family]

That makes me sad, especially Anaris' words. To me internal strife is something we should strife for.

[Anaris]

That makes me sad, especially Anaris' words. To me internal strife is something we should strife for.

Please think about what it means in the game as it is today.

Damaging the mutual trust that is required for a realm to function is very easy to do by promoting internal strife. It breaks down the functional unit into fewer and fewer players, which reduces the number of players a given player can treat as a friend, can trust, and can play comfortably with.

For most people, that makes the game less fun. I'm not willing to make the game less fun for most players so that it's more fun for a few players.

[Gabanus family]

One of the problems we have these days is that people are too much entranched into existing alliances and friendships. Only playing together with always the same family doesn't make this game better. It may make the bonds stronger, but not more fun in general. Some of my chars !@#$ you over, some don't, but people still trust me as a player. The moment people can't separate family, character and ic/ooc is the moment I go. I still have some faith in people.

[Anaris]

One of the problems we have these days is that people are too much entranched into existing alliances and friendships. Only playing together with always the same family doesn't make this game better. It may make the bonds stronger, but not more fun in general. Some of my chars !@#$ you over, some don't, but people still trust me as a player. The moment people can't separate family, character and ic/ooc is the moment I go. I still have some faith in people.

And not one bit of that has anything to do with game features that enable and promote intra-realm conflict.

[Gabanus family]

And not one bit of that has anything to do with game features that enable and promote intra-realm conflict.

Oh but it does, you speak of mutual trust, but that is between one character and another. It should be able to break and new 'alliances and trusts' should be created. You want all realm mates to always just get along because the wars can be fought better and more efficient? At least, the latter is what I understand from your words and if that's so then we see things from an entirely different spectrum.

[Anaris]

Oh but it does, you speak of mutual trust, but that is between one character and another.

What you are talking about, however, is between one player and another. That's why it's impossible to break in-game: because it's gone beyond the bounds of the game.

It should be able to break and new 'alliances and trusts' should be created.

This is true, but does not in any way imply that we should seek to break existing alliances and trusts to force people to make new ones.

You want all realm mates to always just get along because the wars can be fought better and more efficient? At least, the latter is what I understand from your words and if that's so then we see things from an entirely different spectrum.

No. I want players who want to be able to get along with their realm mates to not have to constantly suspect them just because you want to play PoliticsMaster.

And it's not "because the wars can be fought better and more efficient". It's because that's what the vast majority of the playerbase finds fun.

Let me put it this way, Gabanus. I posit that you can divide the players into three basic categories:

• Those who wish to see their realms be cooperative entities, joining together to compete against other realms.
• Those who would enjoy having their realms be cooperative, but also enjoy politicking and backstabbing.
• Those who only really enjoy the internal conflict, and don't find fighting wars against other realms to be much fun.

I further posit that the majority of players are in the first category, and the majority of the remainder are in the second.

Enabling and encouraging intra-realm conflict, while it will make the third category happy and make them less likely to leave, will not significantly change the level of fun those in the second category are having, and will cause those in the first category to have less fun and feel less like the game is for them.

Logically, this leads to the conclusion that we should not be prioritizing changes that increase the level of intra-realm conflict if we want to make the game healthy.

If you wish to sway me, then please address some part of this chain of logic directly.

[Vita`]

I think this is one of those things where there is a moderate position between two extreme views of absolutely realm loyalty always and forever amen (CooperationMaster) and every man for himself (ChaosMaster). There is a place for a realm to work as a team, and as addressed on the front page, that is the primary team. But, because of some's tendency to go too far with team-cooperation, there needs to also be a way to buck the status quo and shake things up, especially when the team-cooperation effort forms AllianceMaster and multiple-realm-teams. We (or I) are suggesting that buying a region of your realm goes too far against team-cooperation to be worth the status quo bucking effect. Buying external regions doesn't break realm-team cooperation in the same way, but does allow bucking AllianceMaster.

[Constantine]

I like internal conflict very much. For that reason I do not particularly like this suggested feature.
Right now it takes a lot of work to erode the realm's power structure and rebellions are laborious and interesting endeavours. If you can just buy a capital when it's lord is imprisoned or severely wounded, it just makes screwing over the realm too simple a task for all those Mayhems out there.