Poll

What is your favorite government

Monarchy
Theocracy
Tyranny
Republic
Democracy
Anarchy

Author Topic: Favorite Government System  (Read 8030 times)

Adriddae

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Favorite Government System
« Topic Start: July 01, 2011, 08:55:47 PM »
What would be your favorite government system? From the point of view of a ruler or knight.

My favorite would be (as ruler):

Theocracy,

Ruler: elected once
General: elected quarterly
Judge: appointed by ruler
Banker elected monthly
Lead the masses with religion and have almost all the power for yourself! Give the nobles the ability to elect their general and banker to keep 'em happy. ;)

Edited: Added a poll!

If you have your own customized version of the regular government systems, please post them as well.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 06:01:06 PM by Adriddae »

AlexR

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #1: July 01, 2011, 09:17:40 PM »

Having not been a ruler, I can't speak from ruler's position :)
I also don't really know what other (notable) effects are caused by the different government system, except for the election frequency.

Even as a knight, however, it is good to have a stable ruler.  They tend to determine much of the diplomacy and realm direction, so a distinct possibility that a new ruler may come to power in a week or two is bad for the realm (imho).

Indirik

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #2: July 01, 2011, 10:35:33 PM »
I tend to prefer Theocracy and Monarchy.

I dislike republics and democracies. I detest monthly elections. Everyone has the same canned election speech: "I will do my best to perform all the duties!" It seems like you're always either electing someone, or campaigning to elect someone. Quarterly elections are much better, if you want regular elections.
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Kain

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #3: July 01, 2011, 11:53:19 PM »
I tend to prefer Theocracy and Monarchy.

I dislike republics and democracies. I detest monthly elections. Everyone has the same canned election speech: "I will do my best to perform all the duties!" It seems like you're always either electing someone, or campaigning to elect someone. Quarterly elections are much better, if you want regular elections.

I like elections. They are fun :D Your character can vote for the one with the least canned speech if it so wishes ;)

But sure, it doesn't have to be monthy. Quarterly works too.
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Vellos

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #4: July 02, 2011, 12:53:41 AM »
My characters are habitually abusive to characters who give canned election speeches. Ask Riombara about it...

I prefer constitutional monarchies; they're just a fun mix to play.
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Carna

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #5: July 02, 2011, 02:21:35 AM »
I've always been a fan of Republics. Even from a leadership role, republics are good. They give Knights and Dames a chance to advance. Good republics vote for nobles who have a history of putting forward ideas and following orders and who put more effort than one or two ready-made speeches to the realm. Writing some or all of the individuals who hold the votes (the Lords and Ladies) isn't a bad start. Trying to rally support from your army, or your Marshal, counts for a fair bit since that says a lot if a person is preforming his current role well. The chance to advance though can bring out the best in nobles, draw nobles there and limit cronyism. It seriously limits the powers of a ruler by comparison to other realm types, but the Lords and Ladies lend a lot of stability as they're only elected once and have more power as a group.

Random thoughts.

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Iltaran

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #6: July 02, 2011, 07:45:11 AM »
Give me a good old fashioned monarchy any day of the week.
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Glaumring the Fox

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #7: July 02, 2011, 09:33:12 AM »
Monarchy.
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Shenron

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #8: July 02, 2011, 09:48:15 AM »
Monarchy with a strong religious element. Very fun indeed.
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Hyral

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #9: July 02, 2011, 05:33:44 PM »
Monarchy, both constitutional and absolutist flavors are good :]

Kain

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #10: July 02, 2011, 08:59:04 PM »
It really is a hard question because the difference is so large now depending on government system choices.

A monarchy and another monarchy is not necesarilly so similar.

I.e Caligus (a monarchy) feels more like a democracy, electing banker and general monthly, judge quarterly and ruler only once.
While Westmoor (another monarchy) appoints general, judge, banker and elects the ruler only once, very close to what used to be known as a tyranny.
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Stue (DC)

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #11: July 02, 2011, 11:25:32 PM »
In my very personal view, appointments give much more quality to the game than elections.

Appointments are burden and responsibility to the one who has that power and always create some in-game dynamics/tension/obligation, in any case leave deep trace to in-game play in one way or another.

Appointments enforce responsibility to the one appointed as well, as there are no ideal claims, and appointee always feels some pressure about it.

The main problem with elections are that they are "ideally fair", they are objective, everyone has chance etc. etc. Not once I heard from leaders who received public complaints about their bad performance "you may be right, but nobles decided on my position, and you can bring your dissatisfaction to next elections" or similar, instead of trying to justify his/her action, and that is point when any further discussion stops. Elections are ideal, leaders are elected in fair way, so they do not need to defend their plans much, if you dislike them, do not vote them next time... Of course, not everyone behaves like that, but one form or another of similar approach can be seen often. That plainly kills potential in-realm political fights.

another problem with elections is that... many new players have good chances. I think that is adverse for both game and those who get some positions too early.

bm cannot offer people real money, golden coins, all our satisfaction come from small attachments to our signatures, titles, some feuds and when new players get them too easy they both do not appreciate it much and lose motivation for further play. much more satisfaction comes from position earned after long time of good work, and those who are too impatient almost certainly will not become even average contributors to gameplay.

additional problem comes form the fact that some position require really tangible in-game experience and some players realize that only at the moment when they get such too easy title, which creates lot of frustration, that is really not fun, especially for them.

monthly elections... endless system messages create apathy.

elections weighted with prestige, representative votes, such kind of elections would make much more sense, because tensions would migrate to domain of reason of such imbalance, be it prestige or large numbers of vasals who are represented. however, i almost never see such elections.

fair and even voting is simply tasteless in my opinion, and those tasteless speeches that comes around that just confirm such their nature. there is nothing in middle age that would support equality among different ranks and reputations, and though they are still useful for some positions voting, it is really bad to see equal voting for all council positions.

of course, there must be natural in-game way how to replace appointed positions, but that belongs in my opinion to another domain - need to create tensions and balance of powers between realm council and landed lords, and that cannot be solved by elections mechanics.


"democratic" elections, similarly to "too much peace code" in my opinion is trying to mitigate consequences of lack of internal conflict, while I believe that should be cured at its source - by creating balance of powers that will not allow untouchable postions.

so, my answer is - any type of government that has no too much "democratic" (equal vote) elections is good...

Carna

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #12: July 03, 2011, 01:52:25 AM »
So yeah, it seems I am one of the few (actually, one of two according to the poll till this point) to consider a Republic my ideal choice. Let me assure all the people looking at me funny that I don't actually consider it ideal from a ruler position. Heh. I'm talking about the benefits to the realm, and as someone working his way up. I've done it before in CE on Atamara where I'd consider it an ideal republic and I've done it in Ohnar West, and things arn't going too badly there either despite how badly their future was looking at one stage. I'm sure there are several who have already posted that have had a character in nearly every republic, given that they are a lot less popular than monarchies. Think though, how many here like monarchies because of the ruler perspective? Say what you want about republics, but they're far from the only realm type that holds elections on a regular enough basis.

I do get the problem with early advancement. And yet sometimes, it pays off. People can only get elected if they have supporters. If they don't, well, they rarely seem to stand a chance. Some will be planned, people putting forward candidates, others will be a little less formal, with the candidate seeking support from his liege, his Duke, his Marshal, etc. In a republic, its up to the Lords and Ladies and some will form factions while others remain independent. Religion always seemed to play a role when I was in a republic, not the religious leadership so much as a line in the sand where you could count on support and where you could expect resistance. But I said it can pay off and it has in the past. I'm not so full of myself to say I'm a shining example, but I've seen others, notably in Dwilight, that have came up and done well.

To really sum up the debate though, I do have a fairly solid point to make. If the northern Atamaran realms turned to republic systems, there would be far greater chance that someone with ambition will be raised up rather than stomped down by established heads seeing a competitor. A harsh judgement, but while most people's favourite government type is a monarchy, I don't think its doing a whole lot for them in effect on more steady continents.

All this is, of course, entirely my opinion and based on my observations. Figured a disclaimer was needed just in case I get flamed to death (",)

Finton.

P.S. There is one aspect of what Stue said that I definitely agree with, however. Fair and even votes are tasteless. And by that I do not mean coarse, but instead fairly dull. Just because there is an election doesn't mean there has to be picture perfect equality. That makes it a popularity contest. Add some vote-counting to the mix and its far more enjoyable. Down with democracy.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 01:56:44 AM by Carna »

Shenron

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #13: July 03, 2011, 02:50:34 AM »
"democratic" elections, similarly to "too much peace code" in my opinion is trying to mitigate consequences of lack of internal conflict, while I believe that should be cured at its source - by creating balance of powers that will not allow untouchable postions.

so, my answer is - any type of government that has no too much "democratic" (equal vote) elections is good...

P.S. There is one aspect of what Stue said that I definitely agree with, however. Fair and even votes are tasteless. And by that I do not mean coarse, but instead fairly dull. Just because there is an election doesn't mean there has to be picture perfect equality. That makes it a popularity contest. Add some vote-counting to the mix and its far more enjoyable. Down with democracy.

I have never thought about it like this before. I've never liked even voting but I can't put my finger on why. DC just gave me an epiphany. It negates potential conflict!! Down with democracy!  8)
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Chenier

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Re: Favorite Government System
« Reply #14: July 04, 2011, 05:27:13 AM »
Mechanics-wise, I prefer theocracies: ruler bonus to stats of the region he's in + ability to appoint himself as duke. Monarchs have the former but lack the latter. Tyrannies, as far as I can remember, go the other way around. Theocracies have both, and as such I greatly favor them to monarchies and tyrannies.

Republics and democracies? Meh. What's the point? One can have regular elections as a tyrant, if so he wishes.

People don't use weighted votes? I love them. I use them whenever I can. And push for them whenever I can too. Gives an incentive to lords to share a piece of their pie and to compete for knights. Them regular knights need a bit of lovin', after all. Hence my love for  republican theocracies: great power at the top, but great incentive to care for the bottom. With the extra stability of being able to totally muzzle exiles that come in batches from elsewhere by denying them any lordship and disregarding their opinions when it comes to voting.
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