The Current War

[Munro]

Also, to be fair, if that's true, it just shows the extent that the CE was involved in international politics. Making demands for another realm, which that other realm didn't even know about!

As a character, Saeculo likes the CE, and is actually quite supportive, he was born there and has his family estate is in Etoge. He's a first generation colonist and so his loyalty is always going to be split somewhat. (As time goes on, less so).

As a player, despite the fact it was my first ever realm, I can't say that they aren't getting what they deserve at least in part. They've pushed Coria around before now, and I know for a fact that Saeculo has had arguments with them before. I believe Enri and Saeculo certainly discussed the apparant domination over Coria and it's foreign affairs.

I would never want to see them destroyed, just learn some humility. They certainly do deserve to be a world power however, their successful defence against such odds is testimony of that.

[Silverfire]

The demands I am familiar with, and what got Darka involved in the war, were "Eston has to give Coria the Barad Lacirith duchy." i.e. Eston has to give their capital duchy to Coria.

That is quite interesting. I've NEVER heard that before, and my character Merlin, like Saeculo's character was at the forefront of Corian politics during that time, perhaps more so than Saeculo at the time. Munro has stated quite clearly what Coria's demands were at the beginning of the war and I know that there was vast confusion in the leadership of the northern alliance about what exactly our demands were at the time, but I know I cleared that up personally with many of the NA leadership since then. (After they had joined the war against Coria of course).

I.E. I can guarantee that those were NOT Coria's demands in the least. Whether another realm such as CE stated those or not, is quite a different story, but it was never made by Coria's leadership that I am sure.

[Perth]

Straw man argument. Why should we waste gold on caravans and take precious food away from our realm to make an attack, simply because one of our allies signed a silly treaty without consulting us beforehand? And we brought almost 20,000 CS in a single army, almost all heavy infantry with numerous siege engines. But that doesn't help us much when the only way to our enemy's land is through a 30,000 CS army behind a palisade, again because our allies signed a silly treaty without consulting us.

I'm so confused. What treaty did you want, then? We could have annexed all of the Barad Falas Duchy and still had this same problem. This mountain problem is no one's fault but Darka's. If Darka would walk through Cantril we would be in the CE without the problems of the mountains, but Darka refuses to offend Talerium for some crazy reason.

[Munro]

but Darka refuses to offend Talerium for some crazy reason.

It's actually quite a logical reason if you look at it from an OOC or Darkan perspective.

Respecting the border with Eston and Talerium prevents them from being attacked. This is especially important for Darka, given the fact they have no loyalties and no true allies. They fight alongside BoM and Hammarsett now, but in the future, if the price was right, they'd attack either of those realms, of that I'm pretty sure.

It makes sense for them to keep the two realms bordering their own happy, as these will be the ones protecting the Darkan borders when the people they are next paid to attack want a little revenge

In short, they are protecting Talerium in the short term, so that Darkan lands will continue to be protected in the long term, when they are mercenaries once again.

[Perth]

They fight alongside BoM and Hammarsett now, but in the future, if the price was right, they'd attack either of those realms, of that I'm pretty sure.

Oh, I'm well aware of that. Kerwin received his first post as a Marshal just about the time Massillion was invaded. Fun times 

[Bedwyr]

This mountain problem is no one's fault but Darka's. If Darka would walk through Cantril we would be in the CE without the problems of the mountains, but Darka refuses to offend Talerium for some crazy reason.

It's not a problem of just going through "the mountains".  It's a problem that the one-region-wide route allowed by the treaty leads straight into a fortification.  Aside from the border with Carelia, CE now only has one border region, and it's fortified.

Darka's policy has been to not piss of Talerium for as long as I've been aware of even the basics of Darkan policy, so this is hardly new.

So, in effect, Coria gets out of the war, CE gets a fortified border, and none of the northern realms gain anything of note.  That's a really, really good treaty for Coria.  I just don't get why Eston agreed.

[Munro]

none of the northern realms gain anything of note

I'm assuming your leaders haven't been keeping you updated. Although I'm pretty sure a lot of it has been mentioned within this thread.

Since the peace treaty with Eston, the Northern realms have gained much more than they would have under normal circumstances.

Coria is agreeing to a lot of the terms (even though we do not have to) as a result of Eston's mercy. Saeculo does not wish for Kerwin or Eston to be punished by his own allies as a result of their peace, and Saeculo has always been willing to compromise.

Since the treaty was signed between Coria and Eston, the Northern realms gained access to Galadia and Belegmon (there is no other access to the CE we can give you). This has been the primary demand of the North since we asked for peace months ago. How is this nothing of note?

There has also been other concessions that Coria has made, and to claim that the North has not benefited is not accurate. Both sides have gained from the peace. If the demands were too harsh we'd have just carried on fighting. It was not an unconditional surrender and we still had the ability to fight, especially with the allied armies aiding us, and any additional loan that they sent.

Edit: That's not to say that we would not have lost, but it would have taken much longer than you think. Your upper hand was gained initially because we got into a 'peace' mindset before the peace was signed. Your primary goal was the CE, not Coria. But now this seems to have changed? Perhaps your government have different goals to the nobles of those respective realms.

[Silverfire]

It's not a problem of just going through "the mountains".  It's a problem that the one-region-wide route allowed by the treaty leads straight into a fortification.  Aside from the border with Carelia, CE now only has one border region, and it's fortified.

I'm confused. Is the north scared of actually fighting CE while their entire military force is having to focus on defending three realms in the south already? How defended can that region possibly be? Unless there is more than 10-15k cs always defending the region I see little reason for Darka/BoM/Eston//Hammarsett to be worried at all. Isn't the point just to get through to start fighting CE? If you think that CE will be able to prevent you from ever getting through that one region, then I must say CE is a lot stronger than I ever imagined and deserves to win this war.

[Vellos]

I'm confused. Is the north scared of actually fighting CE while their entire military force is having to focus on defending three realms in the south already? How defended can that region possibly be? Unless there is more than 10-15k cs always defending the region I see little reason for Darka/BoM/Eston//Hammarsett to be worried at all. Isn't the point just to get through to start fighting CE? If you think that CE will be able to prevent you from ever getting through that one region, then I must say CE is a lot stronger than I ever imagined and deserves to win this war.

Talerium and Tara. Don't forget Talerium and Tara.

[Silverfire]

Talerium and Tara. Don't forget Talerium and Tara.

I didn't intend on forgetting them. They are Coria's allies as it were. Although, you were fighting Tara and Talerium already. What's the change?

[Indirik]

I'm confused. Is the north scared of actually fighting CE while their entire military force is having to focus on defending three realms in the south already?

Heck no. We're ready and raring to go. We *want* to have a few good fights. We just don't want to get slaughtered

(And yes the *current* treaty gives the northern realms permission to trael through Coria to attack CE. That's what Darka wanted. I think most of the animosity about the treaty actually comes from the first versions that were presented: Coria = off limits.)

How defended can that region possibly be? Unless there is more than 10-15k cs always defending the region I see little reason for Darka/BoM/Eston//Hammarsett to be worried at all

See, I would think that being as informed as you are about the political situation on AT, you would know the real score there. It's not just CE. If we only had to fight CE, it would be no big deal. But the treaty you agreed to with Eston secures Tara's northern border. And since they are not fighting in the south, that frees their entire army to defend CE's northern border.

CE/Tara/Talerium had 30K CS waiting for us in Alaise.

[Silverfire]

Heck no. We're ready and raring to go. We *want* to have a few good fights. We just don't want to get slaughtered

(And yes the *current* treaty gives the northern realms permission to trael through Coria to attack CE. That's what Darka wanted. I think most of the animosity about the treaty actually comes from the first versions that were presented: Coria = off limits.)

Ahh okay, understood.

See, I would think that being as informed as you are about the political situation on AT, you would know the real score there. It's not just CE. If we only had to fight CE, it would be no big deal. But the treaty you agreed to with Eston secures Tara's northern border. And since they are not fighting in the south, that frees their entire army to defend CE's northern border.

CE/Tara/Talerium had 30K CS waiting for us in Alaise.

Ahh, well technically I have access to all of the scout reports of the happenings of that battlefront and could check on them after like 5 minutes of searching through messages but I haven't bothered. So yes, technically I should be informed of the exact numbers but I simply haven't had the time to worry about it. Well either way, good for them for putting up such a good defense.

As it stands though, you say Tara isn't fighting in the south so they can worry about defending the north, however as far as I know it was the northern alliance that asked that we include terms such that Tara can't aggressively attack Carelia without being attacked, so you would in effect be holding their forces in the north when they could readily be diverted south.

Interesting the way that politics run things. So much easy when I had just a regular troop leader. 

[Indirik]

Ahh, well technically I have access to all of the scout reports of the happenings of that battlefront and could check on them after like 5 minutes of searching through messages but I haven't bothered. So yes, technically I should be informed of the exact numbers but I simply haven't had the time to worry about it. Well either way, good for them for putting up such a good defense.

I'm not saying that you should know exact numbers. I'm saying that you should have known that's what Tara would do.

As it stands though, you say Tara isn't fighting in the south so they can worry about defending the north, however as far as I know it was the northern alliance that asked that we include terms such that Tara can't aggressively attack Carelia without being attacked, so you would in effect be holding their forces in the north when they could readily be diverted south.

Yep.

Interesting the way that politics run things. So much easy when I had just a regular troop leader.

For the record, my AT character hates having to deal with politics. All it does is force him have to march in big circles.

[Munro]

And yes the *current* treaty gives the northern realms permission to trael through Coria to attack CE. That's what Darka wanted. I think most of the animosity about the treaty actually comes from the first versions that were presented: Coria = off limits.

There is no 'current' treaty. The only official agreement is the one we have with Eston. The only treaty we have with the Northern Federation is an unofficial spoken one as they are not prepared to sign peace. That being said, Saeculo intends to honour it as best he can.

But I'll give you a hint, holding a proverbial gun at Saeculo's head is certainly not the way to go about gaining whatever you want. He's not that type of character, he's from a militaristic background and takes it as more of a challenge, a red rag to a bull if you will. He won't back down to that type of thing. Kerwin certainly went about the correct way of doing things, and as a result, it will help Eston in the future, as it will be remembered that they showed Coria mercy and there will be no bitterness towards them. It's also helped the Northern Federation, as we've met all of your demands that you wished for. Someone on these forums said that war is fertile, it gives birth to future wars. And usually this is the case, this war has severely damaged the relationship between Hammarsett and Coria, it could have done the same between Coria and Eston and there may have been a future war if both sides felt bitter to one another. Yet because of Kerwin this will not be the case.

Whilst we our loyal to our current allies, Tara, Talerium and yes, the CE. We are also now mindful of Eston, not particularly the other Northern realms, but I'd certainly say Eston. It's just a case of balancing our relationship with them and our current allies whom we are still loyal to. I expect this is the exact same case with Kerwin.

I am envious of Darka however, being able to enjoy the delights of War without having their regions devastated, and a lot of the time even being paid to take part in the fun! Hopefully one day everyone might take the party to Darka's lands

When I created Saeculo, he was originally completely against politics. He hated the political world favouring the more simple strategic military one. He was very brash, outspoken and told people exactly what he thought. Most of all he was honest. None of those are a good trait for a politician

Indeed, he only took over as Consul reluctantly due to the ban imposed on Duke Merlin because of that weird bug which banned him after his successful rebellion.

However, he now he does actually enjoy interacting with the political circles. I'd say Sordnaz and Kostaja are similar to himself in their 'warrior' attitude to things.

[Regulus Blackmore]

There is no 'current' treaty. The only official agreement is the one we have with Eston. The only treaty we have with the Northern Federation is an unofficial spoken one as they are not prepared to sign peace. That being said, Saeculo intends to honour it as best he can.

Hammarsett has sent an offer days ago,without requests. The diplomatic relation between Hammarsett and Coria could have changed from war to neutral two days ago.