The Current War

[Munro]

Better spies, evidently.  The only version of the treaty I've seen IC talks about Coria "possibly" allowing northern armies through at a later date. 

Better communication with your leaders... rather than spies

This has been agreed IC also, not just OOC. There are some terms that come with it, but you've opened up your front. The reason that clause was added was because I wanted it to be emphasized that Coria was allowing your armies access, and that it wasn't a god given right for you to be trampling across our lands without repercussion. It also shows us to be reasonable, we're allowing you more than the treaty entails. We don't have to, but it shows that Coria can be negotiated with.

Some things are acceptable and others are not. If we say that something is not, we really do mean it, there's no "call my bluff" with Saeculo. He's not a politician, he's a military leader. He's willing to compromise but if he says something he means it. He said he'd be willing to discuss greater access in the future and he did. He also agreed to it. There's not much more I can say to that other than it's just a little quirk that Saeculo has. You'll gain more in negotiations with him as a friend than as an enemy, and I'm hoping that this is what people are slowly starting to realise.

I can't emphasise enough that this peace was not an unconditional surrender. We want better relations with Eston, we don't see them a typical 'Northern' realm. Kerwin has gained them a lot of trust again, trust which was lost through the actions of Athena and Jean.

The demands of the Northern realms that Jean step down has actually helped the relationship between Coria and Eston. I know this wasn't intentional, but Saeculo quite likes Kerwin. You can tell a lot more about the type of person someone is when they have the upperhand. Kerwin showed mercy and has gained a lot of respect from certain people because of that. Yeah maybe Eston's allies don't like it, but then, Coria's allies didn't like it when we initially denied them access to fight Eston in BoM.

[Sacha]

Coria allows us passage? Ha! You didn't seem very adept at stopping us even when we didn't have permission

[Bedwyr]

Better communication with your leaders... rather than spies

No, we're still at spies.  I play in Carelia, not in the north.  Thus, the situation is quite important, but I don't get as much info as I'd like.

I can't emphasise enough that this peace was not an unconditional surrender. We want better relations with Eston, we don't see them a typical 'Northern' realm. Kerwin has gained them a lot of trust again, trust which was lost through the actions of Athena and Jean.

And with full passage rights, I am perfectly happy with the treaty.  I want those Vikings and Darkans ravaging the CE's north ASAP.  The information I had told me that they couldn't do that, and I am wonderfully happy that it was my information that was inaccurate rather than the treaty being what I was informed it was.

[Munro]

Coria allows us passage? Ha! You didn't seem very adept at stopping us even when we didn't have permission

Really? Because I didn't see your lot in the CE before we agreed to peace I'd say we were very successful at stopping you hitting the CE's northern borders.

[Sacha]

You WERE the CE's northern border during the war

[Silverfire]

I do think it is important to note again the difference between OOC (here on the forum) and IC (within the game). A lot of what has been said here, especially that stuff revolving around when the war began and communications between Coria and CE is not IC readily available information to a lot of people here in the forum. Very few people in fact know of specific discussions which have been alluded to here. I'm just saying let's be sure that we all know where that line is to be drawn.

For instance, the fact that Coria did want it to be a 1v1 war is true in fact, and we didn't want all of the other alliances joining in on the battle.(Actually 1v2, because Talerium + Coria is similar strength to Eston) Coria went to CE to secure defensive aid if things got out of hand due to other northern alliances joining the war. Curiously this also caused northern alliances to join the war, but still.

However, most of these discussions couldn't be proven true or false by anyone except those directly involved in such discussions with Coria's leadership. I.E. Me, and one or two other people.

[Indirik]

Let me get this straight: We are fighting what is essentially an 8 on 3 war. You have us badly outnumbered in terms of territory, income, nobles, military strength, pretty much every statistic and indicator.

And you are complaining that we somehow managed to field some troops on our choke-point? 

Not complaining, just describing the situation. The poster before said there were 10-15K. Well, that was just a bit low. :p

[Indirik]

I wish we had the "save messages" feature a few months earlier. I could have saved all the relevant messages and actually have some evidence to show you guys.

The "message save" feature will not save messages past the 30-day expiration time. They still expire like all the other messages. "saving" messages is not a permanent archive.

Perhaps the "saved messages" name is a bit of a misnomer.

[GoldPanda]

Wait, Coria told you guys that they wanted a 1v1 war originally? That's not what they told us.

It's nice to know (OOCly at least) that Coria was quite willing to throw CE under the proverbial bus if it came to it. I have taught you guys well. 

I was under the impression that the northern realms was so dedicated to the "narrative" that they had concocted that they were ignoring reality.

[Silverfire]

I have taught you guys well. 

Pssh, I taught you everything you know. Simple clerical error caused Enri to be appointed as General instead of Merlin when Lianna stepped down...

[Munro]

Coria was quite willing to throw CE under the proverbial bus if it came to it

That's not true. We were encouraged to sign a peace with the North by the allied rulers. I really don't know what else we could have done, we just don't have the resources to hold back the combined armies of the North. We were limited to a defensive war for one reason or another, and everyone knows the best defence is a good offence. Our defences were slowly being eroded away whilst the Northern realms were allowed to recover and regain strength. Strategically speaking, Hammarsett should have been knocked out of the War. They would have been more vulnerable to such attacks than Coria. Tara could have easily accomplished this.

Plus we've not abandoned the CE, we've had multiple offers in which we could gain more lands from the CE to make up for the losses we have sustained in this War. This was respectfully declined by Saeculo. We're honestly not throwing you under the bus. You should know this given that you have a character in our military council

[Silverfire]

That's not true. We were encouraged to sign a peace with the North by the allied rulers. I really don't know what else we could have done, we just don't have the resources to hold back the combined armies of the North. We were limited to a defensive war for one reason or another, and everyone knows the best defence is a good offence. Our defences were slowly being eroded away whilst the Northern realms were allowed to recover and regain strength. Strategically speaking, Hammarsett should have been knocked out of the War. They would have been more vulnerable to such attacks than Coria. Tara could have easily accomplished this.

Plus we've not abandoned the CE, we've had multiple offers in which we could gain more lands from the CE to make up for the losses we have sustained in this War. This was respectfully declined by Saeculo. We're honestly not throwing you under the bus. You should know this given that you have a character in our military council

That's not what he's referring to.

[Munro]

That's not what he's referring to.

What's he referring to then? The whole we wanted a 1vs1 thing was well before I got involved in the political side of things

[GoldPanda]

Come now. Did CE have any say in the matter in the end?

CE: So how long can you hold the line, Coria?

Coria: Actually our capital is being looted because our Duke wandered into enemy territory on an invitation. We decided to loot Hammarsett instead of running TOs like we should have been. We're pretty close to surrendering here.

CE: Could you please try to hold on? Tara and Talerium are still backing you up.

Coria: Hey... Eston promised us some CE regions if we switched sides...

CE: ... Fine. Do what you need to do to survive. 

[Munro]

Come now. Did CE have any say in the matter in the end?

Haha I don't want to be giving too much away in an OOC forum and after this message, I won't be going into details about the type of things I've been discussing already, as it gives away a lot of the secrets that some characters don't and shouldn't have information to (and rightly so), but you should certainly speak to Aldarion and Ottar if you think we acted alone That was certainly not the case, and it really didn't go down like that.

We brainstormed and it was decided it would be a good idea for Coria to try and get peace. This was months ago now, long before we started taking the heavy damage that we had been more recently.

I agree it was a mistake to raze the foritifcation in Elost rather than attempt a TO of Lyton, but we learned from that mistake.  At the time, I still believed the relations between Hammarsett and Coria could be spared. We recieved reports that Hammarsett wanted peace etc. so I thought a less harsh approach would be better. This turned out not to be the case.

As it happens, out of all the Northern realms, the relationship which has most been damaged has been with Hammarsett. So yeah, if I knew it was going to turn out the way it did, I'd have ordered the TO rather than damaging military infrastructure. But for their allies, Hammarsett wouldn't be in this war at all. Their organisation at the start of the war was a shambles. They had hardly any RC's, a significant part of their forces were captured by Militia in their first offensive action and had we damaged any of their regions significantly, they'd still be unable to recruit an army now probably. Coria should have capitalised on this, we didn't and that was my fault.

Yet there was no other chance to correct our biggest mistake as Tara did exactly the same thing with Hammarsett, that Eston did with Coria. However unlike the other Northern realms, we didn't kick up as much fuss.

Other than the CE, the only other allied realm taking a beating was Coria...we've taken just as much damage as the CE in your defence. You have a character in Coria, in the military council. You know exactly what the situation is in Coria. The reason it took so long for peace to be signed was because we tried to get the best deal possible for the CE in our peace negotiations. I'm sure the leaders of the Northern Federation can confirm this was the case. It was only after the peace treaty with Eston that Coria agreed to give military access through its own lands. And even then, this was discussed with the allied leaders beforehand.