Author Topic: The War  (Read 66945 times)

Vita`

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Re: The War
« Reply #210: December 20, 2017, 09:21:41 AM »
If it wasn't clear, you lose royalty if you step down or are protested from office before you've held the throne 60 days. Once you've held the throne for 60 days, you can step down or be protested from office, and not lose royalty status.

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: The War
« Reply #211: December 20, 2017, 10:26:26 AM »
Quote
Otherwise you would be hating Sirion as much as I do. I think only Gabanus hates it as much as I do.

But I still love Sirion... it's just need some hard work now with old people leaving. And the Royal thing was more of a backup plan. Even being hated, Erik married with Judge Sophia and that was enough to continue going down in popularity, lol.

Quote
My character Brock is no PM, but he is King. And he rules 4 cities and definitely more than 7 regions.

The key here is "no PM, but he is King". It's like to compare apples to bananas... Erik was just Duke. If Sirion was a Monarchy and he the King... see?
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Ketchum

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Re: The War
« Reply #212: December 20, 2017, 10:31:20 AM »
But I still love Sirion... it's just need some hard work now with old people leaving. And the Royal thing was more of a backup plan. Even being hated, Erik married with Judge Sophia and that was enough to continue going down in popularity, lol.
Most old guards I know have left.

Oh yes. For this war, I hear I need thank you someone. So here you go.

P/S: Thank you our former Duke Daniel for his sacrifice will not be forgotten in vain. If it was not for him, the South Alliance will have win by now. He somehow becomes NA greatest strength which is incredible the way he left the game. Only NA know how he sacrifice for us all :o

The key here is "no PM, but he is King". It's like to compare apples to bananas... Erik was just Duke. If Sirion was a Monarchy and he the King... see?
Yes indeed you right ;)

Maybe Brock should have become Fontan Prime Minister then, to match comparison with Sirion Prime Minister. After all, Brock the Fontan Banker had fund many nobles, enough to gather supports if he was to run for PM election. That is "What If" scenario 8)
Werewolf Games: Villager (6) Wolf (4) Seer (3); Lynched as Villager(1). Lost as Villager(1), Lost as Wolf(1) due to Parity. Hunted as Villager(1). Lynched as Seer(2).
Won as Villager(3). Won as Seer(1). Won as Wolf(3).
BM Characters: East Continent(Brock), Colonies(Ash), Dwilight(Gary)

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: The War
« Reply #213: December 20, 2017, 10:40:29 AM »
Daniel... I miss him. The relationship between our chars began with hate and ended in great things.

PS: Erik saved the White Tree... no one saved the Church of the Sacred Grove! Damn you all!!!!  >:(
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 10:53:49 AM by Eduardo Almighty »
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
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Zakky

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Re: The War
« Reply #214: December 21, 2017, 08:23:41 AM »
Daniel... I miss him. The relationship between our chars began with hate and ended in great things.

PS: Erik saved the White Tree... no one saved the Church of the Sacred Grove! Damn you all!!!!  >:(

Glad that WoW copying religion is dead. It was so stupid... Nobody in the elder council wanted to change that. It was just there to prevent other religions. It was nothing special. I tried to change it once but Ecthelion never gave me an elder position :p

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: The War
« Reply #215: December 21, 2017, 11:24:37 AM »
It's not about the religion being good or not, just the fact that people let it die. I will try to start a new one... I like the New Temple you created. The problem is the lack of Priests these days...
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
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Vita`

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Re: The War
« Reply #216: December 21, 2017, 11:44:51 AM »
The problem is the lack of Priests these days...
Part of *that* problem is every priest wants their own religion to do their own thing. So instead of cooperating with fellow players to build Awesome, everyone does their own thing and they all stink, and thus often die when their founder goes. Religion is best when there are a small (3-4) number per island, with each religion spread across multiple realms. The smaller religions get, the more often they are seen as just extensions of one's realm politics.

The advantage SA had is it was a new continent without pre-existing realms (as when religions were created, they were often realm religions to maintain realm control) and players willing to cooperate to build something new. That is why it was so successful, for many years.

CryptCypher

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Re: The War
« Reply #217: December 21, 2017, 11:55:44 AM »
Not only that, but said religion(s) encouraged internal debate/conflict and unity alike, rather than push away everyone who deviates from the norm in any way.

As it goes, its much more fun to have little factions within a faith than to force a schism and see old (possibly new?) faith(s) weakened as a result.

Sorry if I'm tooting JV's horn, but the whole OS thing is a damn fine example of chaos within order, unity within strife. :) May it grow to SA proportions some day.
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Vita`

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Re: The War
« Reply #218: December 21, 2017, 01:28:04 PM »
Not only that, but said religion(s) encouraged internal debate/conflict and unity alike, rather than push away everyone who deviates from the norm in any way.
Indeed. Though it can be a fine line. With ESA, we had 'official' stances. But we also tolerated/turned-a-blind-eye/encouraged (depended upon the specific char, really) innovation/deviation (again, perspective of individual characters). I tried to avoid pushing people out for minor theological flavor differences for the very reason you mention in your next sentence. Meanwhile, SA took extremely hardline views about heretical beliefs, expelling characters. ESA may have opposed its heresy, but we tried to reform you, if there was any hope left for you, which there usually was. ;) Thus, we had sartanists, bloodmoon cultists, pyrists, and a few other flavors of ESA members.

As it goes, its much more fun to have little factions within a faith than to force a schism and see old (possibly new?) faith(s) weakened as a result.
Yes. Absolutely. Better to have one engaging, dynamic religion than two silent, stagnant religions.

Sorry if I'm tooting JV's horn, but the whole OS thing is a damn fine example of chaos within order, unity within strife. :) May it grow to SA proportions some day.
So I've gathered. Toot away! But do clean the horn's mouthpiece first before you give it back to JeVondair. We could use more such dynamic institutions within the game.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 01:35:17 PM by Vita »

CryptCypher

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Re: The War
« Reply #219: December 21, 2017, 01:34:56 PM »
ESA sounds like the best route, as far as the explanation goes.
Apsu@Legends. BM: Yxevarii Auru'in, Grandmistress [Ruler;Priestess-Inquisitor] (Obia'Syela-BT); Sigrid Gudrun Auru'in, Avenging Exile of Xavax, Countess of Slimbar (Redhaven-EC);  Masalu Auru'in, Linguistically-Challenged Sumerian Death-Cultist (D'hara-DW)

Vita`

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Re: The War
« Reply #220: December 21, 2017, 01:36:29 PM »
Alas, its dead, stagnant, and probably a husk of its old self, which was still a work in progress. Between my character, who founded it, and a few other supporters getting discouraged with maintaining it, its fallen to the wayside like most religions. Maybe it'll have a renaissance one day. Or maybe not. *shrugs*.

On a brighter note, Gabanus family was one of those supporters and now he's busy with the Heralds. Still trying to achieve the same thing OOCly, just with different IC characters, religions, and continents now. :)

Chenier

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Re: The War
« Reply #221: December 21, 2017, 02:49:15 PM »
Part of *that* problem is every priest wants their own religion to do their own thing. So instead of cooperating with fellow players to build Awesome, everyone does their own thing and they all stink, and thus often die when their founder goes. Religion is best when there are a small (3-4) number per island, with each religion spread across multiple realms. The smaller religions get, the more often they are seen as just extensions of one's realm politics.

The advantage SA had is it was a new continent without pre-existing realms (as when religions were created, they were often realm religions to maintain realm control) and players willing to cooperate to build something new. That is why it was so successful, for many years.

Indeed, and that was true since a long time. Even in the Blood Cult's early days, I really tried hard to federate other people interested in the priest game to a common religion, and intentionally made the church structure as adapted to that model as possible.

Most people did not want to fold. Can't completely blame them, the way religions are set up gives absolute control to the one with the top rank. Second rank has zero power in comparison.
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Eduardo Almighty

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Re: The War
« Reply #222: December 21, 2017, 05:45:42 PM »
I remember when I created the Bloodspeakers in Melhed... I tried to incentive people along the idea of "regional" gods, so the Lords or Knights of a specific region can created his own "Old Gods".

Guess what... I had to do everything almost alone. Even in Sirion, most of time I was the only one using religious reference.
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

Chenier

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Re: The War
« Reply #223: December 21, 2017, 06:12:26 PM »
I remember when I created the Bloodspeakers in Melhed... I tried to incentive people along the idea of "regional" gods, so the Lords or Knights of a specific region can created his own "Old Gods".

Guess what... I had to do everything almost alone. Even in Sirion, most of time I was the only one using religious reference.

Yea, a few people tried to do that, I don't think trying to involve people not all that vested in the religious game into being responsible of it all frequently worked. The "DYO God" religions seemed to mostly revolve around the founder trying to beg people to join and add their content, with very little success.

The Blood Cult used a slightly different spin, as I didn't target random people to make their own gods, I targeted people already or previously involved in religions. Priests and ex-priests, largely, or people I knew had played religious characters. Then I offered them a framework into which it was easy to port material, without it all just kind of hanging out in the void.

Had some advanced talks with members of existing religions to merge, but not much success, as merging implies losing one religion's temples, treasury, members, followers, and sovereignty. I had much more success with people involved in unofficial religions or with deceased religions, and that came to be the active core of the religion that had tentacles over half the realms and some meaningful direct power in specific areas (despite an utterly "in your face" evil dogma), where mutual compromise and collaboration meant everybody got to do their thing while also furthering a collective agenda.

In my opinion, this is the most effective strategy, but I've not really seen others do it. Religions are usually handled in one of two extremes, either "here I wrote the whole bible you should all praise my creation" or "here I've got an empty book you should all fill it for me".

It's somewhat ironic that the game's most successful religion, from my perspective at least, never really interested people much at all. I don't remember really hearing much passion favorable to SA's theology, but it was just really at the right place at the right time. People wanted *a* religion, and it offered a frame that was not overly unpalatable to anyone. A whole new continent opening, with huge hype about it and its roleplay potential, and it was the only theocracy of the land. Perfect circumstances, really.

But even this is, largely, an extension of the strategy I mentioned above. For a religion to go far, you need to attract players who care about the religion game. Priests, but not only priests. A pious duke can be much more of a boon than a lazy priest.
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Eduardo Almighty

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Re: The War
« Reply #224: December 21, 2017, 06:22:35 PM »
In my humble opinion, SA is more successful not because it's a religion, but an "ecclesiastical house" for disputes of egos and power. Basically, politics with some theological terms.
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!