Dwilight monsters destroy realms

[Battleplaster]

Indeed they do, but not in the sense that you might expect.

I have kept from writing this post for a long time for I did not crave the discussion it would spark. However I enjoy the game greatly and wish it to flourish. Alas, the latest craze in monsters and undead spawns will soon be the last twist of the dagger.

The exorbitant amount of rogue forces on Dwilight are a curse upon the player base of Battle Master.
As a ruler I have watched a large amount of, frustrated, players leave the game due to the realm being essentially crippled. Although I can't be certain, I expect the same in many of the other realms.
Venturing forth from the home lands to do battle with another realm is near impossible, for leaving your realm regions will result in them being ravaged by rogues.

Thus, it is constant baby sitting time, marching back and forth between regions, retaking one, losing another, all versus a nameless faceless opponent called 'Rogue'. This goes on for real life months, severely worsened by the new sea travel 'feature'.  New players leave after a few weeks of this mindless battle, veteran players too, or write posts filled with frustration.
 One of the ooc messages I received from a years long veteran literally read : 'We spend a RL year doing this. Not this !@#$ again!', and deleted his account.
He was not the only one to leave like this.

Interaction with other realms and players is fun, engaging and the essence of the game. It's what keeps people around.
 Whatever the idea was behind the monster spawns, it is not working.
 You are killing the continent.

Please, please, please, stop it.

Thank you.

[Anderfhstim]

Thought monsters on Dwilight are there to destroy realms? Just let them destroy your realm and go join some other realm instead.

[Bronnen]

The monsters are meant to force people to LEAVE!

If people would stop sticking out in Fissoa, Madina, D'Hara and them, then the monsters would stop and people could go to war with one another again.

[CryptCypher]

So... What you're saying is... This favors the idea of players being forced out of their ancestral homes, the very basis of their characters' personalities and histories, the loss of which would cripple many a playthrough... To join random realm ABC, on the opposite side of the continent, where they neither have ties nor care for the government/people/geography/religion/internal issues.

Seems legit. I just rejoined Dwilight after being gone for years. My beloved Terran is still a hole in the ground, and D'hara is a struggle to survive the rogue invasions. I don't enjoy any of the other realms, save perhaps Luria, so I'd sooner quit or move to another continent before I continue on Dwilight in a manner unbecoming to the entire basis of my character there.

See the issue?

[Anderfhstim]

The difference is, unlike the last time when they actually forced people out, monsters just attack whichever realm that has too many regions with too few nobles. It is based on the noble density. That is what Anaris said in the monster problems thread.

If you want to survive, you need to attract players and keep things interesting. Or you can give up few regions to raise the density.

So the best option for you now is start attracting players to increase your density or start shrinking your realm size. The higher your density, the less likely monsters will harass your realm. You will still get attacked but you won't be the main target like some realms.

To be honest, what are you even going to do without monsters. Interacting with other realms? How are you going to do that when you are miles away from other realms?

If you want to avoid joining random realm ABC, start getting more nobles to strengthen your realm ASAP.

[Foxglove]

Westgard would seem to disprove the theory that monsters alone are killing interaction between realms and forcing players to leave Dwilight (and the game) due to a constant grind against monster spawns. We're the realm that does most of the heavy lifting in the monster fighting and we seem to maintain a position as either number one or number two realm in terms of numbers of players. I think the lowest we've ever gone (so far) is the number three spot.

Of course, constant onslaughts by monsters and undead will limit other actions realms can take (particularly Westgard, D'Hara, and Madina), but that doesn't mean that those realms have to be boring or don't interact with other realms. Westgard tends to have three types of nobles. The ones who arrive and stay. The ones that arrive, stay for a few months, and then move on. And the new players who arrive and then stop playing. I think that's pretty much normal for most realms across the game. Just speaking for my realm, I don't feel like we have a poor retention rate. I'd probably say we have a better retention rate than many other realms. I suppose what monster fighting doesn't allow is a total victory over an opponent, which perhaps a certain number of players enjoy.

[Antonine]

The difference is, unlike the last time when they actually forced people out, monsters just attack whichever realm that has too many regions with too few nobles. It is based on the noble density. That is what Anaris said in the monster problems thread.

If you want to survive, you need to attract players and keep things interesting. Or you can give up few regions to raise the density.

So the best option for you now is start attracting players to increase your density or start shrinking your realm size. The higher your density, the less likely monsters will harass your realm. You will still get attacked but you won't be the main target like some realms.

To be honest, what are you even going to do without monsters. Interacting with other realms? How are you going to do that when you are miles away from other realms?

If you want to avoid joining random realm ABC, start getting more nobles to strengthen your realm ASAP.

This. Realms have a choice. If you want to sit miles away from everyone, expand beyond what your noble density will support and then get hammered by monsters then that is entirely your fault. There is no reason why Madina, or Fissoa (or any other realm) couldn't make a big thing out of relocating their entire realm to a better location. There is no reason why any realm can't adopt a Westgard approach of being a bastion against monsters and making a virtue out of it. There is no reason why any realm can't consolidate around a core they actually have the density to defend and then use the time between monster invasions to march off to fight wars elsewhere.

If your realm is boring then it's not the mechanics that are at fault but the players within it. Because only you, collectively, have the power to change things. You've got all sorts of options about things to do to liven things up (for instance, my char is plotting civil war in D'Hara), but if you decide that you want to stick in the exact same spot and overextend yourselves then that's also an option and you're actively choosing it over other options that might be more fun.

[CryptCypher]

Antoine: shhhhh, that's supposed to be a secret, isn't it?

[feyeleanor]

Luria seems to be holding reasonably well against the hordes and like Westgard is strongly invested in a "defence of humanity" campaign. We sent a small force to aid D'Hara with their last infestation despite our own pressures and one day I'm confident that we will reclaim our fourth city of Shinnen.

The Lurian Empire has too much history to simply abandon, and quite a few of us are veterans of the western invasion. If getting hammered by 56K CS in Golden Farrow didn't make me want to join the SA heartlands, the current modest infestations certainly won't!

[Antonine]

Antoine: shhhhh, that's supposed to be a secret, isn't it?

Eh, I trust people not to use OOC information IC :p

[Eduardo Almighty]

When you prefer 56k CS monsters instead of deal with Crixus.
SEND MORE MONSTERS!

[Chenier]

If the rogues didn't attack your realms, your realms would have NOTHING to do.

Because the only realms that ever did anything are still doing so, and the only realms that are crippled by the rogues are those that never do anything anyways.

The rogues are player-driven. Stop senseless sprawl and they won't be much of an issue. If you first end your own senseless sprawl, and you see neighbors not doing so, go teach them a lesson to force them to stop expanding.

Edit: If this is about D'Hara, then it's probably the reason why it currently has the most foreign realms in its land I ever remember it having, the struggle is making D'Hara reach out more than it is known for. There are troops from at least Westgard, Morek, and Luria helping D'Hara out. It's pretty much unprecedented.

[Renodin]

I recall the Southern War.

[Gabanus family]

People first of all a Moderator note: Before you type, please think about how it sounds. Some messages here come accross as on the line of being needlessly aggressive and there's no need for that.

As to the matter at hand. The idea of the devs is to bring density back up a bit as with a too low density it will be difficult to get significant interaction between realms. Right now the density hasn't decreased that much, so the monsters will continue. I happen to agree with the devs and won't mind telling that I've been trying to get Fissoa and/or Madina to agree to move up north as well. Fissoa has ignored me since my proposal and Madina was only a recent attempt. Sure I've also been stirring stuff in Astrum against Swordfell, but that wasn't even really needed. But the problem is real, Madina and Fissoa in particular have nothing else to do even if the rogues don't come and all you can do is expand towards more rogue regions (which happened in the past) further decreasing the density.

Luria Nova and D'hara are more in between these cases, but with the north more fractured it is more difficult for LN for sure. It is difficult to pass the mountains between Astrum and LN and there is no longer any need to do so, so any form of war for LN has become very difficult and/or long travelling. On top of this you have sufficient rogue regions around you which you'll take before doing something else and this again decreases the density and doesn't promote inter realm matters.

D'hara has the see to do something, but it's still doomed to be a bastion against rogues at this point and possibly some raids later on (which actually fits with D'hara's history I thnk).

I'm not saying something is bad or not, but the fact of the matter is that interaction between realms in the south are difficult (to which the geography doesn't help, that's certainly true). Now that certainly doesn't mean you should just move your char to a new realm, you could also attempt to move your realm entirely. There is room in the north right now to do so. It wouldn't destroy your RP and history, it would add a new chapter to it, being forced out by the second great horde of Dwilight. To this day I still regret Barca not managing to establish the realm in the East, as it would have been a great new chapter for the realm.

My idea in BM is never to ignore RP, it is to build upon it and build new chapters. A chapter could be acknowledging you can't keep fighting these hordes and attempt to save the realm through other means for instance. I hope this point of view helps in any way. 

[Chenier]

I recall the Southern War.

I hope you aren't talking about the "when a massive multi-accounter decided to settle up in the South and invade the rest of the realms there" as being a time when those realms actually did something noteworthy.