Author Topic: Is it normal for a new ruler to lose all titles/gov positions and duchies?  (Read 758 times)

Samboji

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Sol on Dwilight has had a rough time of late. Split off from their original Realm, then their ruler and Swordfell's were deposed by the Titan's because they decided it was cheating.

So we all RP'd our butts off. Two entire governments were formed. Similar, yes, and even in Alliance with each other (we are both getting attacked by the same foreign power, and have much history together),  and even are now RPing the changeover of the ruling position from the previous holders.

We're all doing it as "totally not a coup detat",  so nicey nicey, but there's probably no way the former rulers are getting back their positions easily.

And so, I'm now Imperator of Sol. IE, ruler.
But I was banker (Overseer) and general (Archmarshal), now I'm not.
I'm also not Lord of my previous region, a mountain region called North Divide.
The Realm of Sol also has no duchies instituted any more.


I did accidentally appoint one of the accused by the Titans as Archmarshal, but only because our recently established government was stripped of all positions. I would have appointed her Overseer, instead, in hindsight.


Is all this normal?
No duchies, no positions for the new ruler, can only appoint one person to one position, realm "resurfaced" to new, just because I ran for Ruler? Kind of seems like another kick to the crotch after all we've been through, that few seem to see as "against the spirit of the game" anyway.

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« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 07:01:53 AM by Samboji »

Zakky

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Quote
Sol on Dwilight has had a rough time of late. Split off from their original Realm, then their ruler and Swordfell's were deposed by the Titan's because they decided it was cheating.

Not that Titans THOUGHT splitting off from the original realm was cheating. That was cheating because it happened in the middle of an ongoing war and the capital was located inside of the realm they were fighting. Because of this, the new realm has managed to shortened the distance to the front line significantly. Plus people involved did it while knowing it would grant them advantages. According to Anaris, Crixus in particular was punished heavily as he was caught breaching other rules on top.

Quote
We're all doing it as "totally not a coup detat",  so nicey nicey, but there's probably no way the former rulers are getting back their positions easily.

They should be able to run for elections/be appointed in 2 months.

Quote
And so, I'm now Imperator of Sol. IE, ruler.
But I was banker (Overseer) and general (Archmarshal), now I'm not.
I'm also not Lord of my previous region, a mountain region called North Divide.
The Realm of Sol also has no duchies instituted any more.

You are no longer a lord because you are a ruler. You can't have a liege who has you as his/her liege. Not sure about banker and general positions.

Quote
I did accidentally appoint one of the accused by the Titans as Archmarshal, but only because our recently established government was stripped of all positions. I would have appointed her Overseer, instead, in hindsight.

I believe the character that was punished can't run for positions he/she was stripped of. So for any other positions, that person can run/be appointed.

Quote
Is all this normal?
No duchies, no positions for the new ruler, can only appoint one person to one position, realm "resurfaced" to new, just because I ran for Ruler? Kind of seems like another kick to the crotch after all we've been through, that few seem to see as "against the spirit of the game" anyway.

Your duchy should still be there but the position of duke should be empty. You can appoint yourself to the duchy probably. Unless you are new to the ruler position and unfamiliar with how to do it.

You are not supposed to hoard all positions. If your realm is that small, then maybe you should seriously consider recruiting more people or shouldn't have seceded in the first place. Maybe thinking before acting would have helped? Then again it wasn't really your fault for being stuck in that position. I feel bad you are paying for what your ruler and Crixus did but they had to be punished. That is why Titans did what they did. They don't do it just so they can screw people over. I don't get why people think that way.

Samboji

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Because over the years, I have seen the Titans arbitrarily do many things, that ruin at least my fun of the game. And I tend to play in the spirit of the game.

That is why people think that.

Well, such is Battlemaster.

Vita

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And so, I'm now Imperator of Sol. IE, ruler.
But I was banker (Overseer) and general (Archmarshal), now I'm not.
These are some of the remaining minor distinctions between government systems. Judges only keep their judgeship when elected ruler in tyrannies. If a general is elected ruler in a democracy, republic, or theocracy, they lose their generalship. If a banker is elected ruler in a democracy or republic, they lose their banker position.

I'm also not Lord of my previous region, a mountain region called North Divide.
If a dukeless lord is elected a ruler, they are removed from the lordship since they can't swear fealty to someone (to the duke as lord) under them (to duke as ruler) in the hierarchy. You should have received an explanation about this when it occurred.

The Realm of Sol also has no duchies instituted any more.
I'm not sure why you think this is the case, because its not. Or rather, what are you seeing that makes you think there are no duchies?

can only appoint one person to one position
Rulers cannot appoint themselves to government positions in republics and democracies. Rulers in monarchies cannot appoint themselves to be judges. In non-tyrannies, you cannot appoint someone to two council positions. It is possible to be elected to those positions.

, realm "resurfaced" to new, just because I ran for Ruler?
Not sure what you mean by this.

Zakky

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It feels that way because people only see one side of the decision. Most people don't know who they are playing with as well as they think they do. Titans get to access all your letters both public and private. So yeah there are cases where you thought you were playing with a fantastic person but he turns out to be a dreadful a-hole toward those who play against him. Titans are titans. There are more than just one person making the decision. People talk and discuss between themselves. Some people are against punishing the person while others are for it. Also, they don't agree on how to punish that person. Don't forget titans also change. Some titans quit the game or leave the position and new people join in. They need time to get adjusted. Titans are volunteers who were selected because they were good players and they were considered to be rather fair. They obviously make mistakes every now and then but they never favor one realm over others. Most of the time when one of the titan's realm is involved, they stay away from that case to maintain impartiality. Don't simply call them out because they made a decision you don't like.

But then again, I think what I said will just fall over deaf ears. Such is Battlemaster indeed.

Vita

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That was cheating because it happened in the middle of an ongoing war and the capital was located inside of the realm they were fighting.
This is inaccurate. There are many ways a secession could go down, and have gone down, in wartime with a capital at or near the frontline.

the new realm has managed to shortened the distance to the front line significantly. Plus people involved did it while knowing it would grant them advantages.
This is more accurate.

I believe the character that was punished can't run for positions he/she was stripped of. So for any other positions, that person can run/be appointed.
Yes, technically, because of how it was coded. But I do think its in bad taste.

Wimpie

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Vita:

All those rules about when elected ruler, which positions you lose etc, is this written down anywhere?

I feel this is the first time I've ever read this (and I'm not actively looking at the code, I mean player-faced communication). So I feel it should be written down somewhere  ;D
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Chenier

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Vita:

All those rules about when elected ruler, which positions you lose etc, is this written down anywhere?

I feel this is the first time I've ever read this (and I'm not actively looking at the code, I mean player-faced communication). So I feel it should be written down somewhere  ;D

I don't think so. It's, as it has been said, one of the arcane differences between the government systems.

Anaris

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Because over the years, I have seen the Titans arbitrarily do many things, that ruin at least my fun of the game. And I tend to play in the spirit of the game.

The Titans never act arbitrarily. If you think it's arbitrary, it's because you don't have all the information.

If you want more information, you should ask.

We won't always give it (sometimes there's confidential information involved), but that's pretty rare these days.
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MTYL

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I don't know. I mean - I'll leave aside wether or not someone was punished fairly or not. But as I see it about 15-20 players got punished for acts of one person. That's definitely not cool in my opinion. I've seen like four or five people talk about quitting over it. When you see not directly involved people talk about quitting, you know that things could be handled differently.
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Zakky

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It was actually done by two people. 15-20 people were not affected. Did any one lose titles other than the top two involved? No. However, they were two of rulers who were punished. Maybe that is why you think 15-20 people were affected. Also, let's not forget Crixus was holding 3 government positions, 1 ducal, 1 city lordship, and marshal. I mean it is hard to not get affected when someone hoards that many titles. It is Swordfell's fault for relying so heavily on one person.

MTYL

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It was actually done by two people. 15-20 people were not affected. Did any one lose titles other than the top two involved? No. However, they were two of rulers who were punished. Maybe that is why you think 15-20 people were affected. Also, let's not forget Crixus was holding 3 government positions, 1 ducal, 1 city lordship, and marshal. I mean it is hard to not get affected when someone hoards that many titles. It is Swordfell's fault for relying so heavily on one person.

Honestly? This argument is an inch away from "you don't like it? then don't play". And I wonder why battlemaster is struggling with maintaining playerbase.
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Realms do tend to get effected, but the total effect for Sol/Swordfell was only mainly a few days without a ruler I believe, or are there other things you are refering to specifically?
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Ketchum

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Not that Titans THOUGHT splitting off from the original realm was cheating. That was cheating because it happened in the middle of an ongoing war and the capital was located inside of the realm they were fighting. Because of this, the new realm has managed to shortened the distance to the front line significantly. Plus people involved did it while knowing it would grant them advantages. According to Anaris, Crixus in particular was punished heavily as he was caught breaching other rules on top.

They should be able to run for elections/be appointed in 2 months.

You are no longer a lord because you are a ruler. You can't have a liege who has you as his/her liege. Not sure about banker and general positions.

I believe the character that was punished can't run for positions he/she was stripped of. So for any other positions, that person can run/be appointed.

Your duchy should still be there but the position of duke should be empty. You can appoint yourself to the duchy probably. Unless you are new to the ruler position and unfamiliar with how to do it.

You are not supposed to hoard all positions. If your realm is that small, then maybe you should seriously consider recruiting more people or shouldn't have seceded in the first place. Maybe thinking before acting would have helped? Then again it wasn't really your fault for being stuck in that position. I feel bad you are paying for what your ruler and Crixus did but they had to be punished. That is why Titans did what they did. They don't do it just so they can screw people over. I don't get why people think that way.
This is inaccurate. There are many ways a secession could go down, and have gone down, in wartime with a capital at or near the frontline.
This is more accurate.
Yes, technically, because of how it was coded. But I do think its in bad taste.
Hmmm... Looking at Sol and Swordfell case, I cannot help but wonder if on East Continent I create a new realm on Duchy of Kalmar and Kazakh. As long as the new realm capital is not in Kalmar city, I will not be shortening distance to the front line, am I correct? ???

I have asked before, creating a new realm during ongoing war is okay as long as you do not then put your new realm capital to the frontline.

Realms do tend to get effected, but the total effect for Sol/Swordfell was only mainly a few days without a ruler I believe, or are there other things you are refering to specifically?
I think the effects the players are talking about it, the Swordfell current war against Astrum, which spill over to Sol during the times of their no -Rulers times. Other realm has stepped in to ask for no war while negotiations are ongoing.
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Chenier

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Honestly? This argument is an inch away from "you don't like it? then don't play". And I wonder why battlemaster is struggling with maintaining playerbase.

I don't see it that way at all.

2 players got punished. No one's forcing you to rely on these players. The bad situation you are in is the result of these bad players' actions, not the titans'. They broke the rules, and the consequences for it are clear.