Author Topic: Is it normal for a new ruler to lose all titles/gov positions and duchies?  (Read 4692 times)

Zakky

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Sounds like you wanted Titans to just let them be. Then why do we even have Titans?

Like Chenier said. Two people who breached the rules got punished. End of the story. You just learn to play around it.

Gabanus family

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That does not mean we can't somewhat take it into account though. But that is what's happening now IC anyway.

And when I rejoined with this account we had a similar situation in Sirion. Perdan had just invaded the north, crushing us and Sirion's general got locked for suggesting what unit type to order. The player disagreed also and ragequit leaving Sirion in chaos. I couldn't blame the titams or Perdan for the punishment on one of the few rules we have, or Perdan for continuing their war. It did mean we had to reorganize our military quickly though.
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Zakky

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It wouldn't be a punishment if the titans had waited for him to finish the war.

CryptCypher

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Aye, that's the real issue here. Its like, say, how everyone in Obia'Syela and Xavax would shout bloody murder and threaten to quit if JeVondair cheated and got in trouble, because JV is so profoundly integral to those realms that everyone else would feel as if they got punished too.

Unfortunate side-effect of leadership positions is that when your leader screws up, it screws everyone.

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MTYL

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Aye, that's the real issue here. Its like, say, how everyone in Obia'Syela and Xavax would shout bloody murder and threaten to quit if JeVondair cheated and got in trouble, because JV is so profoundly integral to those realms that everyone else would feel as if they got punished too.

Unfortunate side-effect of leadership positions is that when your leader screws up, it screws everyone.

*points to every [email protected]#$ty president, monarch, prime minister, general, ambassador, and so forth throughout recorded history of the Human species*

My point exactly. You can't really wipe out all realm government and most of it's resources without affecting every player in the realm.

What disturbs me more though is that people would still count it victory and cheer if every player from the enemy realm quit battlemaster. Of course I'm hyperbolizing here, but not by much. I've actually witnessed people cheering OOC that Domitus player decided to quit due to Titan decision. I'm shocked at how much OOC hate flies around here.
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Gabanus family

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My point exactly. You can't really wipe out all realm government and most of it's resources without affecting every player in the realm.

What disturbs me more though is that people would still count it victory and cheer if every player from the enemy realm quit battlemaster. Of course I'm hyperbolizing here, but not by much. I've actually witnessed people cheering OOC that Domitus player decided to quit due to Titan decision. I'm shocked at how much OOC hate flies around here.

Even though I wasn't a fan of his playing style I most certainly do not cheer for such a decision. At the same time I've yet to see anyone say it is a good thing that he's quitting. I've seen people remark that he should accept the consequences of the punishment, but that is the furthest I've seen it going. So in this case you might have more knowledge than me?

I think we're also exeggarating the matter a little bit in the sense that any negative message is now emplified and strongly reinforces this thought whereas all the others are 'ignored'. The majority of players have no hate, but the few who do are by far the most vocal. The majority of players are trying to find their ways in this minefield and so with honest and earnest attempts, but those you don't hear so loudly, but I can assure you they are the majority.

Tell me in earnest, are you dissatisfied with how matters are progressing IC? Do you believe suddenly without Crixus Swordfell is done for and destroyed already?
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MTYL

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Nah, I don't have any issue with how matters are IC. I understand that it's natural for people to extrapolate their (IC) hatred for Crixus to entire Swordfell. And having overwhelmingly superior powers against me and my realm... honestly I enjoy the "hard-mode". Makes the eventual victory that much more tasty. And the character I play there thrives in navigating impossible situations. So honestly IC on dwi is almost perfect if you don't count the titan decision practically undoing last ten months of my gameplay there even though I never broke any rules... ;)

The only thing that aches me is that enmity seeps through to the OOC. It's the first time I've noticed it too, cause in all the other IC conflicts I partook in (weren't that many - year old guy here) OOC between the sides was entirely jovial, with occasional friendly banter here and there. But then again perhaps I'm naming an elephant in the room now because I'm just a green "new guy", perhaps that's the standard in battlemaster I was oblivious too for all this time. I don't know. I know that when someone carries the grudge for in-game stuff it puts me off, and I imagine it's one of the things that would put off most of the people.
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Renodin

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Hey there MTYL, Bennet,

Maybe I'll be treading on thin ice here but the OOC animosity is an issue at times. People are keen to blame the Titans / leadership for perceived slights, wrongdoings, shortcomings and what have you.

I myself was punished once but instead of fighting it, I saw the rule they cited and fair, I did just that. Unbeknownst to me at the time though that such a rule existed. However, I moved on and it was better afterwards. I should note that there were a lot of people ingame who were outraged or simply shocked at me being punished. I calmed them down and asked them not to argue the ruling.

What we're seeing today is the opposite and its a drag. We as players must trust the developers and we must trust the Titans in so much that they do try to do what is best for the game and in their best reasoning / ability enforce the rules. Doing so will cause some strife and some difficulty but that comes with the territory of setting boundaries.

Zakky

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That's the downside of having a game where people heavily invest their time into. Eventually they forget they are playing characters. They become their characters without thinking. All the insults their characters get can become personal attacks when that happens.

It is unfortunate Tomislav is upset enough to quit the game. But if that is his decision, we have to respect it. It is sometimes important to vent things but it is also important not to let that go too far. I doubt any player would be too thrilled about a player quitting. It is good to have a character you can hate. Gives you something to work toward.

Antonine

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I don't know. I mean - I'll leave aside wether or not someone was punished fairly or not. But as I see it about 15-20 players got punished for acts of one person. That's definitely not cool in my opinion. I've seen like four or five people talk about quitting over it. When you see not directly involved people talk about quitting, you know that things could be handled differently.

I was in a similar boat to you at one point with one of my characters from my old family. A VERY similar vote.

Aquilegia used to be exactly where Swordfell is now. Only it suddenly turned out that the founder of the realm, and two thirds of the nobles in it, were all the same multi who eventually got bored of what he considered to be "winning" Battlemaster and deleted all his characters overnight.

So I joined a realm which had like 8 nobles in it, myself included, after this mass deletion and only three regions. You could say we were screwed over by the loss of our ruler, banker, judge, general and duke all at once.

But actually it was one of the funnest experiences I had in the game. We were forced to work together and had to constantly struggle in PvE to stabilise the realm. It was only on a small scale but every last tiny thing became vitally important.

In the end we failed but that was only because (from an IC perspective) some Astroist bastards decided they'd rather have Turbul go rogue than appoint a non-Astroist lord to it, which in turn sparked off the Aquilegian civil war and left the realm with too few players to be viable.

It was a great experience and it was fun. There's no reason why Swordfell and Sol can't have the same fun experience now if the players determine to make the best of it :)

Chenier

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My point exactly. You can't really wipe out all realm government and most of it's resources without affecting every player in the realm.

What disturbs me more though is that people would still count it victory and cheer if every player from the enemy realm quit battlemaster. Of course I'm hyperbolizing here, but not by much. I've actually witnessed people cheering OOC that Domitus player decided to quit due to Titan decision. I'm shocked at how much OOC hate flies around here.

What are we gonna do, scrap all the rules because we don't want to upset cheaters and those who back cheaters?

I mean, sure, we could probably streamline the rules a lot, but what do you expect people to do, cheer the bad players?

Chenier

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Nah, I don't have any issue with how matters are IC. I understand that it's natural for people to extrapolate their (IC) hatred for Crixus to entire Swordfell. And having overwhelmingly superior powers against me and my realm... honestly I enjoy the "hard-mode". Makes the eventual victory that much more tasty. And the character I play there thrives in navigating impossible situations. So honestly IC on dwi is almost perfect if you don't count the titan decision practically undoing last ten months of my gameplay there even though I never broke any rules... ;)

The only thing that aches me is that enmity seeps through to the OOC. It's the first time I've noticed it too, cause in all the other IC conflicts I partook in (weren't that many - year old guy here) OOC between the sides was entirely jovial, with occasional friendly banter here and there. But then again perhaps I'm naming an elephant in the room now because I'm just a green "new guy", perhaps that's the standard in battlemaster I was oblivious too for all this time. I don't know. I know that when someone carries the grudge for in-game stuff it puts me off, and I imagine it's one of the things that would put off most of the people.

The titans didn't invalidate your progress, Crixus, the guy you supported, did. He betrayed you, the titan's reaction was neither arbitrary nor unpredictable.

MTYL

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Chenier you have like waaay wrong view of the entire thing. I'm surprised it is even possible to be this wrong. I'm not sure what are you trying to achieve here.
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CryptCypher

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How so? I'm curious to hear your perspective on this.
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MTYL

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Since you asked Crypt, here's explanation what I ment:

What are we gonna do, scrap all the rules because we don't want to upset cheaters and those who back cheaters?

Here he implies that that's what I meant - "scrapping the rules" etc. It's a serious overinterpretation at best, I never suggested anything of the sort. Later he implies that other players in Swordfell "back cheaters". But they didn't have a say in this, how come "not having a say in something" is backing it? Yes they could've protested and be banned or quit the realm, but half of them even didn't knew that it's going to happen untill it happened and most them saw precisely the same kind of secession not being as much as frowned upon by anyone. And honestly - have you ever seen players protesting against some a bit fishy but universally accepted behavior en masse by leaving the realm? I'm only a year old player but I'm certain you haven't. Not going to extreme lengths to protest something you disagree with is not "backing it".

I mean, sure, we could probably streamline the rules a lot, but what do you expect people to do, cheer the bad players?

Here he implies that I expect people to cheer bad players. Not cheering the fact that someone's quitting the game is equal to "cheering the bad players"?

The titans didn't invalidate your progress, Crixus, the guy you supported, did. He betrayed you, the titan's reaction was neither arbitrary nor unpredictable.

Here he assumes he knows what progress I'm talking about, and based on his (completely wrong) assumption creates a (still incoherent even if it was based on a right assumption) arguement. He said "Crixus, the guy you supported" - which is a false statement. Actually, let me dress the entire logic structure of the last sentence into different vocabulary to highlight the nonsense and illustrate how appaling it is:

Your parents didn't raise you, Bill Gates, the guy you know in person, did. He birthed you, your parents' reaction was neither peaceful nor calm.

I'll pass over the fact that his entire response in it's construction accounts for my "hard feelings" regarding what I said about Titan's decision affecting my gameplay in a negative way. Those hard feelings by the time I wrote the comment he's responding to were "mild annoyance" at best, which I signalised with a wink at the end of that sentence.

And finally all he said was based on the assumption that the main reason for the ban was strategic secession, when it really wasn't. Strategic secession was just a pretext and micromanaging was the main reason for the punishment. I saw nearly exact same secessions, at least two, with noone being punished for them.


So voila.

tl;dr - "I'm surprised it is even possible to be this wrong." - if he ment it, or - "I'm not sure what are you trying to achieve here." - if he was just teasing me with ironic, intentional use of logical fallacies and bad eristics.
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