Author Topic: The New Xavax  (Read 37756 times)

steelabjur@aol.com

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #75: December 13, 2017, 06:26:38 PM »
CryptCypher is referring to a comment by Hector Serpentis Tandaros, that got a bit mangled. Sirion is a Republic.

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #76: December 13, 2017, 06:45:48 PM »

...As the player who came up with most of the Xavax lore years before Xavax existed, inserting it into the early realm (both as a psychological experiment, and as tribute to the death Atamara. Hence why I created the Phoenix cult and called our king "Xerarch", among other bits. We'll miss you, Atamara.) I'd like to think my lovecraftian lovechild is still alive and well. Granted, its been mutated time-and-again into something altogether unique, but its both satisfying and horribly eerie how it still holds true to the ideological foundations and repeats the lore of feverish late-night type-a-thons.

You can try to wipe Magnus from Xavax history but he lives on every single time Xavax echo his crazy phoenix cult of pride and meritocratic imperialism. :P 

We seem to remember the same history very differently. Unfortunately, I did not begin recording Xavax history until Jan 2017, over 8 IG years after the fateful Xavax Civil War


Can someone ooc explain the Paragon bit? While it draws deep parallels with the framework of the phoenix cult, I have a feeling that is mostly accidental and that the Path faith was in fact designed to deviate from the old Phoenix pagan cult. Retain just enough to warrant conversion, the usual assimilation tactic.

Little known fact: Xavax faith, identity, and culture was designed in reference to Hebrew, Sumerian, and Egyptian mythology. The more modern bits were designed to echo Israel.

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Path_of_Paragons
The Phoenix Cult never took off; It's only torchbearer didn't have the time. The Path was founded years later, almost a decade IG, with the doubledeath of Ulfang Mormont, the First Paragon. It's entirely heroic ancestor worship more in line with what you'd find in Norse, Chinese, or Greek mythos. The author of that religion was one of the original Knights of the Black Swan and sadly no longer plays.


Remember all those people saying they'd never tolerate Selenia as Xerarch? I wonder what happened to them :P
They, particularly Kellan Dodger, made it their mission to make my life...interesting. I credit KD in particular with tipping the first domino that eventually brought Selenia to her knees.

Xaligus is just a bit wierd. Are you really expecting that many Caligan refugees to come over to the NX immediately after being wiped out by them?I have a fun feeling there'll end up being southern Xavax and northern Xavax, the difference being those who have deemed to have "sold out" to the south or were prepared to redact Selenia in exchange for Fontan. I don't doubt these two nations will have a vast difference in culture and may not get along as well as might be thought. The word "traitor" is being flung around a lot in Sirion. What about Xerachim/Xerachar for ruler names?

It's unclear what the Caligan knights will do. I imagine their players will find IG reasons to go wherever the fun on the Island is. Despite a relatively bad reputation, Sirion may see some new refugees. If not that, then their only immediate choices would be with the Xavax or with Vix/Highmarch as the latter are currently having a blast, lol. I do agree that if the Xavax Schism isn't healed, we could end up seeing a war between the two Xavax factions that will occur primarily in the north and east. Idk if I dread or relish the notion. I can't deny that seeing two Xavax realms at eachother's throats would be exhilarating, even if I could never join in the fun. The whole "Who's the true Xerarch" here...It reminds me of the Eastern and Western Popes. Near as I can tell, this Xavax Schism was primarily driven without initial malicious intent by Asher Renodin, with Sigrid Aru'un in a supporting role and opposed to the Phoenix [Old] Guard that includes Selenia's ruling council and other recognized princes.
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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #77: December 13, 2017, 09:48:07 PM »
Novus Xavax was not our idea. That was a placeholder term in our earliest negotiations, suggested by NON-Xavax. I initially counter-suggested Xavax Novux, a play off of both our X-citing linguistic games while retaining the "idea" of "New Xavax".

...Do like Xaligus, however. Or Xaliga. Xatamara. Cinis Bennuides / Cinis Phoenixis (Ashes of the Phoenix). Or just Heliopolis, from whence hailed the Bennu myth that spawned the legend of the Phoenix. Thanks Herodotus.

...As the player who came up with most of the Xavax lore years before Xavax existed, inserting it into the early realm (both as a psychological experiment, and as tribute to the death Atamara. Hence why I created the Phoenix cult and called our king "Xerarch", among other bits. We'll miss you, Atamara.) I'd like to think my lovecraftian lovechild is still alive and well. Granted, its been mutated time-and-again into something altogether unique, but its both satisfying and horribly eerie how it still holds true to the ideological foundations and repeats the lore of feverish late-night type-a-thons.

You can try to wipe Magnus from Xavax history but he lives on every single time Xavax echo his crazy phoenix cult of pride and meritocratic imperialism. :P

Can someone ooc explain the Paragon bit? While it draws deep parallels with the framework of the phoenix cult, I have a feeling that is mostly accidental and that the Path faith was in fact designed to deviate from the old Phoenix pagan cult. Retain just enough to warrant conversion, the usual assimilation tactic.

Little known fact: Xavax faith, identity, and culture was designed in reference to Hebrew, Sumerian, and Egyptian mythology. The more modern bits were designed to echo Israel.


Edit by Gabanus: I know, but best to avoid sensative topics like this just in case so we can focus on the New Xavax and her name. Just in case

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Ketchum

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #78: December 14, 2017, 02:26:18 AM »

It's unclear what the Caligan knights will do. I imagine their players will find IG reasons to go wherever the fun on the Island is. Despite a relatively bad reputation, Sirion may see some new refugees. If not that, then their only immediate choices would be with the Xavax or with Vix/Highmarch as the latter are currently having a blast, lol. I do agree that if the Xavax Schism isn't healed, we could end up seeing a war between the two Xavax factions that will occur primarily in the north and east. Idk if I dread or relish the notion. I can't deny that seeing two Xavax realms at eachother's throats would be exhilarating, even if I could never join in the fun. The whole "Who's the true Xerarch" here...It reminds me of the Eastern and Western Popes. Near as I can tell, this Xavax Schism was primarily driven without initial malicious intent by Asher Renodin, with Sigrid Aru'un in a supporting role and opposed to the Phoenix [Old] Guard that includes Selenia's ruling council and other recognized princes.

Without Selenia, my character has been having a hard time trying to figure out who is who, from among Xavax nobles. Selenia never explained to Brock that there are Princes or rather claimants to Xerarch crown. People can just mention I am from Xavax and you must give him a new realm. Then what would happen if another few Xavax nobles step up and say they want new realm too, separately from the first guy? It will total chaos. So my character took time to figure out who is who, what is what and why is why. It was not an easy task when you took a few factors some internal, some external into account.

Yes, I do recall Magnus Aurea something as Xavax first Ruler. Is he still around, I not sure. That's what you get when too many characters around, only some leaders names I recall well.
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CryptCypher

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #79: December 14, 2017, 08:13:02 AM »
CryptCypher is referring to a comment by Hector Serpentis Tandaros, that got a bit mangled. Sirion is a Republic.

Actually, no - its a a joke in reference to Solomon saying "this is a democracy", about Sirion.
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CryptCypher

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #80: December 14, 2017, 09:31:33 AM »

We seem to remember the same history very differently. Unfortunately, I did not begin recording Xavax history until Jan 2017, over 8 IG years after the fateful Xavax Civil War

Indeed - and through absolutely no fault of your own, much history has been erased, confused, and altered along the way. As for our differing perspectives... Remember, you and your loyalists were not part of the first wave of Xavax arrivals. I was the third (possibly even fourth, as I arrived hand-in-hand with another) noble to join Xavax, according to notes taken at that time. It was later, a mere few days later I believe, that you arrived with your cadre in tow. Though a few days are insignificant in the grand scope of our history, those moments of heavy and constant discussion - often public, but especially private - were integral to crafting the first vestiges of the identity you encountered and helped evolve.

Once I upload the hardrive of the laptop used back then, I'll finally have every single message ever sent or received (by/to Magnus) from the first days of earliest Xavax to the first days of your reign. I meticulously saved, organized, and categorized everything that contributed to our design, culture, faith, history, military, law, and decisions, as well as the material that inspired my own contributions and suggestions. (both IC and OOC) I will be updating the Xavax wiki to reflect that history seeing as how so much confusion, misinformation, and omission seems to shroud its early development.

A lot of the most fundamental aspects of Xavax culture were put into place during those earliest days, even before your arrival - to the point where arriving Xavax of your and later generations fell into two camps: those who immediately donned the Xavax mantle of public lore and those who wanted to reform Xavax in their own image/perspective. Thanks to your history as both an amazing RPer, ambitious plotter, former ruler, and power-broker, you brought a significant volume of alternate plans/ideals along for the ride. You had some interesting ideas, which others and myself enjoyed, and Xavax evolved according to your contributions. Xavax wasn't always receptive to you, however, if you'll recall the many who spoke out against you ever becoming Xerarch, or even a Duchess. Not to mention the many, some of which later became fervent Selenian loyalists, who spoke out in private. (Some of which was sent to you as a warning) Also recall our discussion of Magnus proclaiming you the Phoenix Reborn in order to give you an edge against the competition, and how Magnus (and I as a player) saw Selenia (and JV) as the only loyal pretender worthy of carrying the torch, the only one who would honor the phoenix and prevent the rebels from re-writing the history of our people. You were the one and only acceptable successor, something both Magnus and I believed wholeheartedly for very different yet similar reasons. Unfortunately, the whole Dodger debacle ended up prolonging Magnus' reign and forcing his hoped-for peaceful abdication to instead take place after a bloody civil war. We decided, then, both IC and OOC, that Magnus should be wiped from history in order to cement Selenia as a true Xerarch, representative of the sacred Phoenix, and living embodiment of the Phoenix Reborn. Recall even when we discussed the change from neutral gender terms to calling the Phoenix "She/Her" specifically to give you an ideological advantage. You may or may not recall some of this, but the founding and creation of Xavax culture was so vital an aspect of my life that I discussed it profusely with fellow artists and my best friend - long into undying nights. You seem to have forgotten how much of Magnus' later behavior was tailored by Selenia's request, as a direct result of those protests against you gaining too much power and Magnus/My desire to see you crowned regardless. We laughed, both IC and OOC, about how conspiratorial and ironic it would be for Magnus to pave way to the rise of Selenia. Something I've always recalled quite fondly. Soon enough Magnus abdicated just as we had discussed, and did so in a way that would purposely look like it was all thanks to Selenia that the mad-king Magnus was finally dethroned by civil war. (which you incited partially under Magnus' command/suggestion, and I suspect partially to cement your influence. Never did get to confirm or deny claims and hints that you took an active conspiratorial part in the birth of the civil war, though the fact that Magnus practically told you to do so really makes it a moot point.) Still, that does not change the origin of our foundation, much of which either predated your arrival or your deeper involvement in Xavax politics.

Quote
[/size]
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Path_of_Paragons
The Phoenix Cult never took off; It's only torchbearer didn't have the time. The Path was founded years later, almost a decade IG, with the doubledeath of Ulfang Mormont, the First Paragon. It's entirely heroic ancestor worship more in line with what you'd find in Norse, Chinese, or Greek mythos. The author of that religion was one of the original Knights of the Black Swan and sadly no longer plays.

Ulfang Mormont? I never knew any Ulfang, but I fondly remember Uthred Mormont. Damn good player, damn good character. As for the the "phoenix cult", the one I describe was always intended to be a reference to early Xavax culture itself. I do not know enough of the phoenix cult you describe to know who did the torchbearing or what exactly they bore. For all I know, someone took the vague Phoenix cult idea and ran with it. Or it could easily be a sarcastic jab at Magnus earliest desire retire from Xerarchy and become Prophet of the Phoenix cult, which is the reason why I began discussing and planning Selenia's rise in the first place. I vaguely considered the idea after the fall of Magnus, but I felt he was too tainted to make a mark. I refused to contest Selenia's designs, and Magnus would sure have ended up doing so. Becoming an actual structured (official) religion was just a bonus to cohesion and long-term planning. A way to prevent too much of that early spark from being eroded by subsequent generations, ambitions, and assimilations of culture and perspective.

I'd like to learn more about these Knights of the Black Swan. To play the devil's advocate and bring up a point seemingly missed, the Path is reminiscent of Catholicism's retroactive and often posthumous sanctification of pivotal archetypal figures through the selectively romanticized recount of history. Note Blessed Bartolo Longo the satanic priest; St. Junipero Serra (brought Catholicism to California, contributed to the genocide of Natives); St. Augustine the hedonistic party animal; St. Angela of Foligno the materialistic adulteress (who only converted at the age of 40 after most of her family died and she fell into a profound depression); St. Dismas the Thief (one of the two crucified beside Lord Jesus Christ); St. Patrick of Ireland; St. Valentine; and a number of others.

As a pagan with a lifelong passion for Greek, Egyptian, Sumerian, and especially Norse mythology; raised in the Holy Roman Catholic Church in both USA and Brazil, as well as numerous Protestant sect churches thanks to various insistent relatives who feuded with our Catholic side of the family; I note less of a parallel to ancient pagan ancestor worship and more of a pretense of ancestor worship using the saint system of Catholicism.

Albeit, the unique culture of Xavax skillfully combined both systems to varying degrees. Good stuff either way!

Quote
[/size] They, particularly Kellan Dodger, made it their mission to make my life...interesting. I credit KD in particular with tipping the first domino that eventually brought Selenia to her knees.

What Dodger giveth, Dodger taketh away. Ironic that he was both the one to tip the domino of your ascent and descent.
[/size]

Quote
It's unclear what the Caligan knights will do. I imagine their players will find IG reasons to go wherever the fun on the Island is. Despite a relatively bad reputation, Sirion may see some new refugees. If not that, then their only immediate choices would be with the Xavax or with Vix/Highmarch as the latter are currently having a blast, lol. I do agree that if the Xavax Schism isn't healed, we could end up seeing a war between the two Xavax factions that will occur primarily in the north and east. Idk if I dread or relish the notion. I can't deny that seeing two Xavax realms at eachother's throats would be exhilarating, even if I could never join in the fun. The whole "Who's the true Xerarch" here...It reminds me of the Eastern and Western Popes. Near as I can tell, this Xavax Schism was primarily driven without initial malicious intent by Asher Renodin, with Sigrid Aru'un in a supporting role and opposed to the Phoenix [Old] Guard that includes Selenia's ruling council and other recognized princes.[/size]

Frankly, who knows.

And aye, you about summed up exactly what Asher and I have been joking about. Who reflects the Eastern or Western Roman Empire I don't know, but that's a moot point. Eastern Roman Empire went on to become the powerhouse of Catholic and secular European powers, while the Eastern Roman Empire gave rise to the Byzantines, Ottomans, Orthodoxy, and so much more. Though the Rome-bound Empire collapsed, it instilled so deep a mark on history that even after shattering it managed to reshape faith, government, history, and politics as we know it.

You could arguably claim that while the Western Romans of Constantinopolis were more successfully cohesive, the Western Roman Empire's fragmentation directly led to the wholesale scattering of post-Roman ideologies the world-over. In that vein, perhaps the Byzantine's unity (well... sort of. All that internal conflict though!) did more damage than good. After all, what you deem more successful depends on your perspective.

Would you:
a) rather last far longer in a somewhat cohesive, if isolated and stagnant state of finely-tuned chaos,
or
b) Shatter completely, forcing the culture, knowledge, wisdom, philosophy, technology, and ideology of your empire to be carried to all corners of the world by those who no longer have a home?

Both were profoundly influential in their success, albeit during different timespans and for completely different reasons.
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CryptCypher

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #81: December 14, 2017, 09:32:45 AM »
Yes, I do recall Magnus Aurea something as Xavax first Ruler. Is he still around, I not sure. That's what you get when too many characters around, only some leaders names I recall well.

No, I killed off Magnus and quit the game until recently returning with the Auru'in cadet branch.
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steelabjur@aol.com

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #82: December 14, 2017, 05:09:22 PM »
Yes, I do recall Magnus Aurea something as Xavax first Ruler. Is he still around, I not sure. That's what you get when too many characters around, only some leaders names I recall well.

His player is, Sigrid Aru'un in the game and CryptCypher in this thread. :) The Princes are an honorary position and were never meant to have political power per say, Selenia had selected only one heir before her leaving, my character Aramon Abjur, whose claim is supported, as JeVondair said, by much of the old guard.

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #83: December 14, 2017, 05:20:09 PM »
His player is, Sigrid Aru'un in the game and CryptCypher in this thread. :) The Princes are an honorary position and were never meant to have political power per say, Selenia had selected only one heir before her leaving, my character Aramon Abjur, whose claim is supported, as JeVondair said, by much of the old guard.

Now you're tempting me to respond hehe. I won't though, let's keep this one ingame.

JeVondair

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #84: December 14, 2017, 05:38:36 PM »

A lot of the most fundamental aspects of Xavax culture were put into place during those earliest days, even before your arrival - to the point where arriving Xavax of your and later generations fell into two camps: those who immediately donned the Xavax mantle of public lore and those who wanted to reform Xavax in their own image/perspective.
Yeah no, I don't remember any of that considering Selenia was the 5th person in the realm and arrived a day after it opened so I'd be curious to see what set-up I missed. We were still land-locked at the time and could only go two regions out from the capital. I remember Selenia urged her supporters to vote for Magnus as first ruler in exchange for the Duchy of Xavax that guaranteed him the win against a former Atamaran queen named Viridiana Sovari. While you and Magnus may have had a very clear vision of Xavax, the rest of us were mostly confused, both OOC and IC, because Magnus himself was erratic and prone to melodrama. Most of Selenia's time as Duchess was spent alternately trying to keep Magnus from exacerbating his nobles while at the same time trying to keep the malcontents from starting an open rebellion. Ultimately, despite doing my best, she failed at both...which is pretty much a metaphor for her entire career.

As for the Black Swan, that occurred after the rebellion when Perdan first entered the Xavax Wars. I did a bit of recruiting and Mozzoni and I made up an RP in September 2016 to cover it. They formed a sort of "new" guard. Only 2-3 players of the original 12 knights are still active in the game. But by our height we had over 60 noble families in Xavax sharing the tiny, tiny tax income Xavax provided.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Greater_Xavax/Black_Swan

Most everything of note that you missed is squirreled away on the Xavax wiki somewhere. Please don't split the Xavax into two opposed groups, the wiki-upkeep will become a nightmare  :-X
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CryptCypher

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #85: December 15, 2017, 06:42:07 AM »
Very cool, I'll read up on that wiki page in an hour or so. Also, no worries. Damn sure I too will be surprised at much of what those old messages uncover.

Its difficult to memorize every random exchange where even an off-hour 2-sentence message may spark a major shift in policy, action, or perspective that snowballs to unexpected magnitudes.

See, for example, the "Marry Sigrid to King <redacted>" movement that gained a majority of Xaxax votes semi-recently. It was a massive surprise to me as both a player and to Sigrid the character, who developed new beliefs and feelings from the aftermath.
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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #86: December 15, 2017, 07:53:10 AM »
Godric (Family ka Habb, BaricaBoat I think his name is on these forums) wrote Xavax's laws, something I was loathe to touch during Aramons tenure as Arbiter because it's an impressive (if a bit ponderous) document. He and JeVondair deserve more credit for the Xavax Wiki pages, they put a lot of work in there.


And JeVondair, you sell yourself short. Xavax could have fallen apart after the failed rebellion, but you pulled us together in a way that I've not seen elsewhere. Hell, I was expecting to settle Aramon down into the quiet life of a priest or a courtier after the rebellion, but Selenia managed to bring out sides of that character I thought were long dead in him (after all, it's not to every woman he awkwardly suggests using himself to legitimize their pregnancy! :p)

CryptCypher

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #87: December 15, 2017, 07:57:48 AM »
Ah, good times. I remember when the first laws were made, he did a damn good job.

JV, Aramon does have a point. You were the glue that held it all together. Its why I chose you. You had the voice, the smarts, the contacts, the capability, and I'll be damned if you didn't do a better job than anyone could have managed.
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CryptCypher

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #88: December 15, 2017, 07:58:28 AM »
Whatever happened to that guy who would torture peasants and wear their faces as masks?
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CryptCypher

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Re: The New Xavax
« Reply #89: December 15, 2017, 08:23:28 AM »
(OOC discussion from earlier this week - food for thought)

"...While the Sirion-Xavax represent the late Xavax theocratic-imperialist ideology of Selenia, the southern/Fontan Xavax represent the earliest Xavax ideology of liberal meritocracy beneath the guidance of a Xerarch, welcoming foreign tongues and faiths of all who would embrace our culture and seed it with their own revitalizing creeds.

Compare it to the schism between imperial Britain/Spain/Portugal/France/etc and (pre/post-) colonial Americas; ancient and orthodox hebrew versus modern liberal israelites; the reformation and evolution of Christianity through Catholicism, Protestantism, Ethiopian Coptic and Mono/Miaphysites of ancient Abyssinia/Alexandria/etc, and other such epochal branches; or the schism of the East and West Roman Empires most of all.

Each with their unique strengths and weaknesses, visions and biases, geographies and infrastructure, and unique flavor of what it means to represent their beloved cultures.

This is what I've striven to create of Xavax since day one. Not a bloated, unified imperium as Selenia envisioned, but a Lurianesque federation of rival meritocratic city-states clinging to variations of Xavax culture that both define and defy their identities. Unified against external forces at times, yet incessantly feuding among themselves.

In a way, it may still come to pass. Regardless, this is fun!"

Food for thought.
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