Author Topic: Make Battlemaster Great Again - War Overhault  (Read 320 times)

Chenier

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Re: Make Battlemaster Great Again - War Overhault
« Topic Start: February 13, 2018, 07:15:27 PM »
Ehhh...maybe. I'd rather just reimplement CTOs.

In some form, maybe. The way they used to be, no.

Strongly supported.

Nope. I'm not going to do anything that's just going to take thousands of gold from mostly long-running families.

I might well put in some things that act differently when your family gold is high, though. Like increasing ransom dramatically, having bandits sometimes actually capture you and try to ransom you from your family, that sort of thing.

...Which military actions use family gold now? I can't recall offhand. I'd rather have them use army gold.

That's the opposite of the direction we went a while ago, and though I won't say "no," I certainly won't say "yes" either. This, I think, needs a detailed explanation & discussion.

I would say not almost impossible, but a lot harder than it's been. Otherwise, yes, I support this.

I presume you mean the automatic type that pops up on looting? Yeah, I'm still not happy with those, or with the consequences of looting generally. I might open a topic about this for general discussion and brainstorming.

See, like that. That's a fantastic idea! ;D

Mmm, no, I think not, though I do have some Thoughts on changes to how militia work that would, at least in a geographic sense, drastically reduce their prominence.

I don't think that's looting. I think that's some kind of propaganda engine. Which I have some ideas for, too.

So we can have huge hollowed-out realms again? I lean toward "no," but I also lean toward "I have ideas for making that restriction much more nuanced."

I have a plan in mind that's very similar to this—and if you can tell me why you call it "Demesne", I might even use that name for it, because I didn't have a good name yet.

That's great to say, but always hard to actually implement.

1) Maybe. They were always awkwards, though. A city in the middle of enemy lands is hard to make a viable realm in off the bat. No RCs, no economy, right next door to the rest of the enemies...

2) Maybe simpler, less-gamey, and more hybrid form. Ex: allow rulers to give to all troop leaders half of their realm share taxes, which when selected, also allows them to double the max tax rate they can impose on their dukes (and so on down the line).

4) Gold past the new lowered cap need not be completely removed. You could have a decay of maybe 10% of the excess per week, during which time half of the decayed gold is shared between the active characters of the family. Gotta remember, though, people with 20k gold are people who horded key positions in their realm, and instead of helping their realms do stuff, they were parasites that funneled funds elsewhere. BM would probably have seen a lot more wars if the super rich had nowhere to send their gold other than in-realm (especially if wealth taxes were back).

5) Buying regions, namely. On Dwi it got pretty silly how widespread it was used. On EC too. I vaguely seem to recall something else, but it's not coming to mind right now.

6) Yea, I think it does need discussion. An alternative to buying regions would be to bribe referendum results, but I'm not sure if undermining elections is something we really want to do. In any case, my general feeling is that one-player gimmicks should not easily undermine the collective actions of a large number of players.

8 ) I am referring to two things: peasant militias that spring up in reaction of looting, and peasant militias that spring up for the mere presence of enemy nobles from realms they hate. On EC, one priest/ambassador in particular has gone to a few regions and made them utterly hate every single SA realm, and utterly love every single northern realm. Just entering those regions causes 10k of militia to appear, and holding them after a TO is practically impossible due to the insane amount of protest debuffs. We are starting to counter with out own ambassador work, but it's super gimmicky that one noble can build an impenetrable trench line that even one of the largest armies of the continent sitting in the region doing police work and civil work cannot stabilize it and prevent it from revolting.

9) Fight or flight! The natural response of people towards invaders is to flee. If peasant militias defending their homes really needs to be a thing, I think it should be a form of drafting where the lord pays a lot of gold for it, and where it does huge region stat penalties.

11) Propaganda or simply killing off all the loyal government officials (without bothering to put new ones in place). Could use TO mechanics, but easier and not limited by having a border.

12) and 13) These points are actually intertwined. I'm still in favor of density, in some form, but just not for the sake of it. Density is a tool, not an end in itself. Thus the idea is to allow realms to continue expanding into each other, otherwise once the density sweet spot is reached all incentives to fight a neighbor are almost gone, without necessarily giving a title to everyone for it. In other words, realms could keep expanding to 10, 20, 30 regions, even if they only have 15 nobles, but they would either be dissuaded or prevented from appointing all 15 nobles to the various lordships. And that even when all nobles have the titles they can have, the realm still has incentives to acquire new regions, because these would feed the communal taxes, and thus make everyone richer. Remember, the goal of increased density is, among other things, make sure that realms don't become filled with people that have nothing more to gain. But the current density mechanics kind of still do this in an indirect way (on Dwi).

As for why that specific word, I looked up "crown lands" or something like that in Google, and was offered that as an synonym. It seemed feudal yet less overtly monarchic, thus better fitting with non-monarchy government flavors. In the early days of the new estate system, there were imperial regions that relayed directly from the ruler, who could be a region lord without being a duke. It's somewhat inspired from that, but also mechanically very different.


Quote
de·mesne
dəˈmān/
nounhistorical
noun: demesne; plural noun: demesnes

    1.
    land attached to a manor and retained for the owner's own use.
        the lands of an estate.
        archaic
        a region or domain.
        "she may one day queen it over that fair demesne"