Author Topic: Reappointing inactive Dukes  (Read 2502 times)

Jens Namtrah

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Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Topic Start: July 17, 2011, 02:26:28 PM »
Wanted to see opinions on this - used to see it from time to time when I played before, and might be seeing it again:

We all know that in a great many realms, Dukes are the long-time friends of the ruler, hardly ever change, very often never say a word,  etc.

Occasionally, they go inactive. And the ruler "hems" and "haws" for a few days about making a decision, and then Oh, look! the player logs back in, "IC claims" is used as an excuse, and the character is reappointed to Duke.

Now, in my mind, this is circumventing a rule created by Tom specifically to aid turn-over in positions and let more people become involved, and so the ruler should be punished.

That's my opinion - what is yours?

Sacha

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #1: July 17, 2011, 02:43:05 PM »
I'm fairly sure there is a warning when a Duke is about to go inactive. As soon as that happens, any sensible ruler would start taking auditions for a successor, so one can be appointed ASAP if the Duke does vanish. A city that goes without a Duke for several days, only to see the one noble who was incapable of holding it in the first place reappointed, should at the very least elicit some furious response from the general nobility.

Also, it's just cheap from an OOC point of view.

Stue (DC)

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #2: July 17, 2011, 02:48:06 PM »
generally, i admit to dislike "ingenious" logical links created to present some ordinary in-game event as something which breaks rules.

for me, situation is simple: such dukes have sensible claims and appointing them looks rather natural. if you would forbid reappointment after auto-pausing, that would be serious push about ir, isn't it? someone can auto-pause for whatever reason and if his ic claims and reasons are still strong, there is no ground to forbid reappointment.

all this you hear  from someone who heartedly advocate more push to dukes.

however, i am advocating more push for dukes to be more interactive, not login-active. i think these two terms always need strong separation, and every experienced player should care to hold that distinction in his/her mind.

Jens Namtrah

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #3: July 17, 2011, 02:50:42 PM »
I'm fairly sure there is a warning when a Duke is about to go inactive. As soon as that happens, any sensible ruler would start taking auditions for a successor, so one can be appointed ASAP if the Duke does vanish. A city that goes without a Duke for several days, only to see the one noble who was incapable of holding it in the first place reappointed, should at the very least elicit some furious response from the general nobility.

Also, it's just cheap from an OOC point of view.

No, there was no 5 day warning, only the removal notice - at least as far as what was sent realm-wide

Anaris

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #4: July 17, 2011, 02:59:40 PM »
No, there was no 5 day warning, only the removal notice - at least as far as what was sent realm-wide

At least the Council always gets a warning.
Timothy Collett

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #5: July 17, 2011, 03:00:00 PM »
Now, in my mind, this is circumventing a rule created by Tom specifically to aid turn-over in positions and let more people become involved, and so the ruler should be punished.

What rule is that?
Timothy Collett

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Anaris

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #6: July 17, 2011, 03:01:23 PM »
Oh, and specifically:

Yes, the ruler should be punished.  He should be punished by having his people rise up and protest against him for being such an obvious crony-supporting idiot.

If you can't rally enough people to protest the ruler out of office after that...then clearly, the realm supports the act.  Maybe it's stupid, maybe they're all stupid, but that's what the realm has, and you can't always change that.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Jens Namtrah

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #7: July 17, 2011, 03:13:39 PM »
Not rule, then -code. Obviously it is there for a reason. You tell me what it is.

Chenier

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #8: July 17, 2011, 05:36:20 PM »
Wanted to see opinions on this - used to see it from time to time when I played before, and might be seeing it again:

We all know that in a great many realms, Dukes are the long-time friends of the ruler, hardly ever change, very often never say a word,  etc.

Occasionally, they go inactive. And the ruler "hems" and "haws" for a few days about making a decision, and then Oh, look! the player logs back in, "IC claims" is used as an excuse, and the character is reappointed to Duke.

Now, in my mind, this is circumventing a rule created by Tom specifically to aid turn-over in positions and let more people become involved, and so the ruler should be punished.

That's my opinion - what is yours?

From my experience, this means that the ruler has OOC contacts with the player, such as with MSN, and when this happens they try to get in contact with the person via OOC means to get them to log in again to re-appoint them.

Kinda sucks, but I think that's how it is.

Bedwyr

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #9: July 17, 2011, 08:03:49 PM »
Or, alternatively, someone went on vacation and then came back after they got auto-removed.

And yeah, sure, there are people who don't say anything but I'm always wary about making those kind of judgements without more information.  One of the most active and involved Dukes in Arcaea rarely says anything to the realm and only sometimes to any of the message groups because he prefers handling things via PMs either with his knights and lords, the other Dukes and Duchesses, or his King.  If he went on vacation, it would probably look like one of those silent Dukes disappearing and coming back, but not to anyone in the know.
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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #10: July 17, 2011, 09:41:22 PM »
I recently had a player go inactive in Astrum, and lose a duchy. Another player then phoned him and warned him. The former duke then logged in and sent an OOC message about how he was house-sitting and didn't have net access. The hardest part about this is that by the time he did send the message, we had already picked a new duke. Plus, the player only sent an OOC explanation, nothing IC about it at all. So from an IC perspective, the character had just disappeared without a trace. Hard to deal with IC, when there's no response from the IC-inactive player, even when you OOC know what happened.
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Vellos

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #11: July 18, 2011, 12:21:40 AM »
Another player then phoned him and warned him.

This irks me. It's not entirely logical I guess, but it just does.
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Jens Namtrah

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #12: July 18, 2011, 12:51:58 AM »
Oh, and specifically:

Yes, the ruler should be punished.  He should be punished by having his people rise up and protest against him for being such an obvious crony-supporting idiot.

If you can't rally enough people to protest the ruler out of office after that...then clearly, the realm supports the act.  Maybe it's stupid, maybe they're all stupid, but that's what the realm has, and you can't always change that.

Why would they do that? It is clearly an OOC issue

To me, this seems very similar to "place-holding" a ruler position, which I thought was  against the rules.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 12:53:55 AM by Jens Namtrah »

Perth

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #13: July 18, 2011, 02:11:08 AM »
What if a Duke is wounded and loses his position? Is it okay to wait for him to recover and reappoint him?
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Indirik

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #14: July 18, 2011, 02:23:38 AM »
Waiting for someone to recover and the reappointing them, or re-electing them, is perfectly acceptable. And, if you want that character in that position, the correct thing to do.

Appointing someone to hold the region for four days until the "rightful duke" is back and then they'll step down is not acceptable. If that was acceptable, then the game would specifically allow you to appoint someone to do that.
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