Author Topic: Reappointing inactive Dukes  (Read 8107 times)

songqu88@gmail.com

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #15: July 18, 2011, 02:32:56 AM »
...Um...so we can ask the Magistrates (Heyhey look at that, something for them to do already!) but I'm quite confident that there exists no rule nor spirit of a rule that says one cannot keep an open position open indefinitely and at some point in the future appoint whoever he wishes.

No, seriously, it's probably a supremely bad idea, but idiocy isn't rulebreaking, and if the ruler appoints lordships, then he does in fact have the power to appoint who he wishes when he wishes. Now the placeholder rule, if I understand correctly, is when the ruler doesn't want to leave the position open because that leads to stats penalties and lower taxes, so in order to mitigate this mechanical penalty he appoints someone temporarily to the position with the understanding that the temp will step down once the intended duke can resume his position. Furthermore, that only becomes an issue if in fact the temp does step down and it was due to the predetermined agreement.

You can all split hairs defining it but the fact, I believe, remains clear:

There's nothing wrong with appointing no one to a position.

There's nothing wrong with appointing your friend to the position as long as you...actually, no, screw that and the craven rulers and hypocrites who talk about always requiring IC justification: If you have the power to appoint someone to a position, it's 100% A-OK to appoint some random dude to the position. Your realm might protest, but I don't think it's something that Tom/the Titans/the Magistrates should get their hands into. Obviously IR and SC remain in effect, but if King Random sees that his capital city of Screwed has no duke and decides to label a roulette wheel with all the names of nobles who are eligible for the position then throws a marble on there, and it turns out he appoints Sir Dumbass to Duke Dumbass then there can be a whole ton of intrarealm conflict (Hooray! Because apparently people like that!) but no lightning storms striking down the monumentally whimsical King Random.

Oh, and since I might have strayed from the original point, it's also perfectly fine for King Favoritism to appoint Sir Brownnose as well. So what? Yeah, poor form, but that's why you grab your torches and pitchforks and oust King Favoritism. The king really doesn't need to give a justification, as long as he doesn't do some excessive OOC stuff to make his realm uninviting to newcomers. Hard to imagine King Favoritism not doing that, but sometimes, there really are just the rare exceptions where the player's friend really wants it and real-life friendships bleed into the game. As long as it's not the whole realm, I think, it's just annoying, but not exactly wrong.

As for King Nepotism or King Narcissist, who appoint family members and himself, respectively, well, nothing to do there really. It's completely within his bounds, and thankfully only two characters from the same family can exist on a single continent. You have all council positions and the two largest cities taken by two characters from the same family? Your ruler holds all but one council position and sits as duke of the capital? Ok, if you're discontent do something about it. Can't? Oh well too bad, go somewhere else if it vexes you so much. Eventually if enough people are also annoyed by it the realm will wither and die due to lack of player support.

Anyway, what isn't good is if you try to circumvent game mechanics by appointing a temp whom you replace shortly thereafter according to your plan...whose intention was to circumvent game mechanics.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 02:42:09 AM by Artemesia »

Jens Namtrah

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #16: July 18, 2011, 02:36:45 AM »
What if a Duke is wounded and loses his position? Is it okay to wait for him to recover and reappoint him?

An interesting question.

I don't personally think the idea of characters losing positions makes much sense the way it works now. I suppose the idea behind it was that the character was presumed dead, and others with claims step up to grab his old titles. I think that's fine in a heavily role played realm that isn't full of "sheeple", but we don't really see it that often, and it is very hard to start a role play around anyway. ("Lord X shouldn't be returned his titles because he was wounded on the front lines!" ?? Who is going to rally around you against the will of the King or Duke based on that?)

However, if the code was put there with the intention of causing more turn over, then it would seem to go against Tom's intentions to reappoint him. So, no, he should not be given back his duchy in that case, unless no one else claims it or there is at the very least some sort of IG role play and opportunity for others to be appointed.

However, I don't think we need to complicate the issue by lumping a lot of seemingly related activities together. The question I asked originally revolved around OOC inactivity and what could even be considered to be OOC-clanning, if you want to take it that far.

Vellos

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #17: July 18, 2011, 05:02:08 AM »
...Um...so we can ask the Magistrates (Heyhey look at that, something for them to do already!) but I'm quite confident that there exists no rule nor spirit of a rule that says one cannot keep an open position open indefinitely and at some point in the future appoint whoever he wishes.


Other Magistrates can chip in if they want, but I feel reasonably confident in saying that, for myself, I'd favor a "case or controversy" limitation for the Magistrates. Indeed, I think the standing requirements for the US Supreme Court (injury, causation, redressability). Meaning my thought is that we would require an actual complaint be brought by one player against another player for a specific instance of a behavior.

Again, other Magistrates may disagree. It's a new system we're still working out. But that's my thought. If the Magistrates wade into addressing hypotheticals we will have an endless workload.
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Chenier

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #18: July 18, 2011, 05:21:33 AM »
Other Magistrates can chip in if they want, but I feel reasonably confident in saying that, for myself, I'd favor a "case or controversy" limitation for the Magistrates. Indeed, I think the standing requirements for the US Supreme Court (injury, causation, redressability). Meaning my thought is that we would require an actual complaint be brought by one player against another player for a specific instance of a behavior.

Again, other Magistrates may disagree. It's a new system we're still working out. But that's my thought. If the Magistrates wade into addressing hypotheticals we will have an endless workload.

I tend to agree.
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Bedwyr

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #19: July 18, 2011, 06:09:00 AM »
Aye, no point in addressing hypotheticals.  Show me an actual situation where I can find out what's really going on and we'll talk.  Otherwise people can construct hypotheticals that prove whatever point they want to prove.
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Jens Namtrah

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #20: July 18, 2011, 06:27:34 AM »
I haven't really kept up with this new idea, but I thought the Magistrates were some role-playing device to handle In Game disputes?

This is an OOC issue.

Perth

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #21: July 18, 2011, 07:17:37 AM »
I haven't really kept up with this new idea, but I thought the Magistrates were some role-playing device to handle In Game disputes?

This is an OOC issue.

No. They are OOC officials to handle OOC disputes over rules between players.

They are an experimental replacement for the Titans.
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Zakilevo

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #22: July 18, 2011, 07:43:27 AM »
I recently had a player go inactive in Astrum, and lose a duchy. Another player then phoned him and warned him. The former duke then logged in and sent an OOC message about how he was house-sitting and didn't have net access. The hardest part about this is that by the time he did send the message, we had already picked a new duke. Plus, the player only sent an OOC explanation, nothing IC about it at all. So from an IC perspective, the character had just disappeared without a trace. Hard to deal with IC, when there's no response from the IC-inactive player, even when you OOC know what happened.

My character got appointed because of this  ;) I guess these kind of things give an opportunity for younger noble like my character.

fodder

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Re: Reappointing inactive Dukes
« Reply #23: July 18, 2011, 08:23:20 AM »
if a ruler can stand having a city deteriorate due to lack of lord for an indeterminable period... and have no one bitch about it ingame.. then... who cares?
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