Poll

Should magic be removed from EC and Colonies?

Yes Completely
5 (22.7%)
Greatly reduce it, but keep some around with less impact
12 (54.5%)
No, I love magic
5 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: Under Debate: Remove magic from EC (Stable)  (Read 852 times)

Gabanus family

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Under Debate: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Topic Start: May 25, 2018, 09:07:17 AM »
Magic was never part of BM and slowly gained some presence, however it has gotten completely out of control. I understand that some may argue I should just evolve with my time but this no longer feels like the game I once joined.

My proposal is simple:
1) Keep magic on testing (BT and Dwilight)
2) Remove all magic from stable (EC and Colonies)

This way those who like magic can focus on BT, but we also have one normal pvp continent without this frustration on EC.

Application on stable code:
-Remove all witches, keep the sages
-Remove all scrolls
-Remove portal stones as posible item on stable

*Edit, RP wise I'm more than happy to open a portal myself and throw all my scrolls in, have several, and pray for magic to be gone from tge world entirely.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 07:55:45 AM by Vita »
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wadestar

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #1: May 25, 2018, 09:17:55 AM »
I have to say I agree magic shouldn't have such a great influence. Battlemaster is supposed to be low fantasy.

Haerthorne

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #2: May 25, 2018, 09:25:35 AM »
Agreed with this, particularly on EC. I do think some kind of IC solution as Gabanus is proposing;

*Edit, RP wise I'm more than happy to open a portal myself and throw all my scrolls in, have several, and pray for magic to be gone from tge world entirely.

... is a very nice solution to this, or at least to the incident that has initiated this call for change.
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Fuor Family

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #3: May 25, 2018, 10:10:49 AM »
I'm fine with magic in Battlemaster in general. But it was my understanding when I joined that EC was the low-fantasy island. And I think that players should have at least one continent to choose from that is low-fantasy. I personally don't particularly care whether uniques stay or go, I'm even okay with some limited scrolls, though I think those should be rare at best on a low-fantasy island.

I have, admittedly, not had much experience with portal stones prior to this incident. They've generally occurred far off (except one humorous incident that lead to one of my lords in Perleone declaring his region - Ar Raqqah, I believe? - a nudist colony when the effects of a portal stone caused everyone to get naked and have some fun). However, prior to this incident, I'd never seen them used as anything more than a bit of RP flavor here on EC. Perhaps I simply haven't been paying attention, that is entirely possible. (EDIT: In fact, based on some discussion in the other thread on Magic in Bescanon, it's been brought to my attention that the portal stone that caused those 'humorous' events in my own lands also ended up with Isadril nearly emptied of population, I had forgotten that bit as it didn't particularly affect me)

However, so long as portal stones are capable of affecting game mechanics on EC in such a major way, I think they should be excluded from EC. If EC is intended to be low fantasy as I had always had the impression, portal stones should either be removed, or they should provide very minor buffs or debuffs to a region at best, sort of like some sort of 'divine blessing' or 'divine wrath' that slightly increases population growth or production or slightly decreases morale or something. (And to be clear, I'm not speaking of the CoH Divine, hence why it's not capitalized. Was just a possible explanation for the source of the effect for a low-fantasy continent, I'm sure there are other options)

« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 10:30:29 AM by Keltin Fuor »

Kalkandelen

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #4: May 25, 2018, 10:24:23 AM »
I completely agree EC should be low fantasy, BT and Dwi are more then enough for those that want this type of gameplay.

Ketchum

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #5: May 25, 2018, 11:26:22 AM »
I agree... seeing my adventurer Portal opening in Iglavik on Colonies never get resolved while the Portal resolved on EC by changing the walls.

I think the adventurer those who opened the Portal should suffer some consequences for opening the Portal. You want use magic? You will suffer while you using magic.

The players who prefer magic can go Dwilight or Belu. In fact we should have specific flavor island to cater to different types of players and characters.
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Zatirri

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #6: May 25, 2018, 11:54:50 AM »
Stated on the discord ( https://discord.gg/exDmF2 ) but shall repeat it here too.

Although I think the way the magic was dealt with was unbias and fairly done (By dice roll apparently) it is quite annoying to see the only real active PvP realm be dominated by magic that requires little to no player input.

I agree with Kethcum, that the other the continents have a high magic content already, and the EC would benefit more from separating it from the fantasy and allowing it to be player action directed.

Medron Pryde

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #7: May 25, 2018, 12:07:06 PM »
I have personally seen portal stones used in times of need and utterly ignored.  This was during a Daimon invasion on BT when the Daimons had overrun a capital and the only hope of removing them was with portal stones.  And it was the result of a week's long cooperative venture by many adventurers and nobles.  Even days later, when nothing happened, the players were told that the portal stones were not wishing wells and that one should not expect the devs to simply do something because they were used. 

And here I have seen portal stones used as a wishing well to request that defenses be denuded to help one player faction over another.  And the wish was granted a mere hours later.

I honestly have no real issue with portal stones and the like on islands where the Daimons come and invade from time to time.  They make things interesting, and add a cool mystical element to the game to complement those massive otherworldly invasions that periodically smash all player realms.  The portal stones and scrolls give the players an ability to fight back against the otherwise overwhelming odds of the dev-controlled monsters, undead, and Daimons.

But when there is no Daimon invasions to use them against, like on EC, I don't think they fit the motif.  And even as I love to rail against the "foul magics of the Elvan Masters of Sirion" and the like, I know I'm mostly making it up on the spot.  Granted, I do remember the "rain on magics hitting the walls of Oligarch" that I speak of, but most of those were rusting weapons or putting fear into the hearts of soldiers and the like.  Mostly minor.  Though the targeted spells that could take a duke or ruler out for several days so he couldn't call the citizen militia were I thought a bit abusive.  Denying another player the option to play his character I think starts to seriously stretch the limits of what we want to do in the game.

Basically, I'm against the idea of one player faction using magic to make it impossible for another player faction to fight back.  Or for other players to play their characters at all.

Now I don't mind the little stuff.  Rusting weapons.  magical steeds.  Magical armor.  Putting fear into the heart of soldiers.  Little stuff like that can add to the roleplaying and be interesting to deal with.  But I've seen enough major changes of how the game plays based on magic to realize that I'm not a big fan of that, especially on continents that don't deal with the Daimons and their invasions.

Gabanus family

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #8: May 25, 2018, 01:51:52 PM »
Like I said I don't mind magic much on for instance BT. But EC is tye only reap pvp continent remaining these days that still embodies Battlemaster as it used to be.
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Axton

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #9: May 25, 2018, 03:11:19 PM »
I care less about the presence or absence of magic and more that there is a set policy or mechanic and that it is rigorously adhered to, which based on the comments seems not to be the case.

Anaris

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #10: May 25, 2018, 04:40:21 PM »
A plan is being drawn up to significantly reduce the effects of magic on the EC, and slightly reduce it on other continents.
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Haerthorne

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #11: May 26, 2018, 07:17:43 AM »
A plan is being drawn up to significantly reduce the effects of magic on the EC, and slightly reduce it on other continents.

Thank you for the time and effort.
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Gabanus family

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #12: May 26, 2018, 10:02:22 AM »
A plan is being drawn up to significantly reduce the effects of magic on the EC, and slightly reduce it on other continents.

Thank you!
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Alex333

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #13: May 26, 2018, 02:33:15 PM »
I am in favor of limiting what magic can do.

Completely moving fortifications and buildings is in my opinion over powered. Damaging them I think would be more balanced and even constructing new buildings wouldn't be as bad. I think maybe the whole magic system needs to be redesigned. I don't want to take away from the fun adventurers get with magic but adventurers are commoners and shouldn't be the deciding factor or a huge influence of how an entire continent ends up.

Maybe have a list of options adventurers are allowed to do with portal stones and they choose what option(s) they want to see happen. Chances of success could vary depending on what the adventurer wants to do. And/Or maybe have magic available without portal stones and only have the stones to make portals but still have limitations or options an adventurer can do. I am sure there are other systems that can be made up better than what we have now and even better than what I thought of.

Even though I have a character on the side that benefits from the most recent events on EC, I sympathize with the players now at a severe disadvantage.
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Gordy77

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Re: Remove magic from EC (Stable)
« Reply #14: May 26, 2018, 03:41:39 PM »
I agree with limiting their power, with a multiplier or bonus applied for,

-the effort in gathering portal stones
- the quality of your roleplay especially,
- involving multiple players both advy and noble
- offering personal risk or sacrifice

Anything that adds to richness without taking away imho can only be beneficial.

(Post partially motivated by the lengths the gabanas family is going to, to put things right)