Author Topic: Discussion on Monsters  (Read 4959 times)

daviceroy

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #90: August 15, 2018, 05:39:44 AM »
My 2 cents which is probably not amounting to much...

In Nothoi, my character is trying to hold onto Creasur.  My character has spent quite a few days in a rouge prison after waves and waves of rouges knock down peasant militia and the troops they have.  Try to get to capitol and it's almost always either injury or getting captured.  Continent density is 2.85.  In theory, this should mean the roaming hordes should be diminishing, but it doesn't seem to have happened yet.  The food situation in Nothoi from what I was told by the previous banker is that we can't feed everywhere.  Perhaps as players we should abandon Creasur, but it's a connection city the helps to bridge a gap between Nothoi and Vales.

In D'Hara, I hear my fellow players frustrations about always doing battle against rouges.  D'Hara is one of those particular states where the primary regions of it has always been on islands.  I've personally brought up proposals in character to reduce us down to a limited number of regions and/or supported moving elsewhere in an attempt to end the onslaught, but both proposals are unfavorable to players.  Right now, it's mainly just trying to make sure the regions don't starve to death, wait for a horde to take it over, reclaims the region, try to rebuild it up and rinse and repeat.

I'm still a fan of a prevention system of retaking regions instead of monsters.  I fear that is this continues with monsters "punishing" density issues, this will lead (if it hasn't with some already) to thinking monsters are the dev's punishment for player population going below what they want.  This could in turn cause players to give up resulting in more "punishment" creating a very negative feedback cycle.

Zakky

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #91: August 15, 2018, 06:15:46 AM »
Why though? This system works. It keeps density high by making people lose regions. It has a bit of downside of making people quit the game but it will react to it and make people lose more regions. It will repeat it until people suck it up or the island becomes empty.

Medron Pryde

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #92: August 15, 2018, 07:51:03 AM »
The truth is that Nothoi can feed all of its regions.

Just not at 100%.  Basically, the cities are stuck at 50% rations until we can get more farmlands.  There is no reason to starve any region in Nothoi, unless the goal is to drive regions into rebellion so they leave Nothoi.

Nothoi is well above the 3 characters per region number that the mods say should be the goal and should trigger a lessening of rogue swarms targeting them.

Not that I've seen a major drop.  Reeds continues to be hit by monster and undead swarms on a daily basis in sufficient numbers to keep me from repairing the walls.

Zakky

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #93: August 15, 2018, 10:47:32 AM »
The truth is that Nothoi can feed all of its regions.

Just not at 100%.  Basically, the cities are stuck at 50% rations until we can get more farmlands.  There is no reason to starve any region in Nothoi, unless the goal is to drive regions into rebellion so they leave Nothoi.

Nothoi is well above the 3 characters per region number that the mods say should be the goal and should trigger a lessening of rogue swarms targeting them.

Not that I've seen a major drop.  Reeds continues to be hit by monster and undead swarms on a daily basis in sufficient numbers to keep me from repairing the walls.

But other realms on the continent haven't reached 3 noble per realm average. So Nothoi must suffer as well. Nothoi better help other realms reach that goal by attacking them.

Chenier

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #94: August 15, 2018, 05:42:34 PM »
But other realms on the continent haven't reached 3 noble per realm average. So Nothoi must suffer as well. Nothoi better help other realms reach that goal by attacking them.

I seriously hope this isn't serious because it sounds a lot like terrible reasoning I think we all long ago finally agreed was terrible.

AFAIK, no realm on BT can manage to attack any other.

Zakky

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #95: August 15, 2018, 06:59:00 PM »
I seriously hope this isn't serious because it sounds a lot like terrible reasoning I think we all long ago finally agreed was terrible.

AFAIK, no realm on BT can manage to attack any other.

Good that new RC system is in place. No more too RNG reliant crap anymore. There isn't a single RC from the time when Tom was still around unfortunately. No more 99/99/99 RCs left. But some RCs did last for a very long time.

daviceroy

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #96: August 15, 2018, 11:22:50 PM »
The truth is that Nothoi can feed all of its regions.

Just not at 100%.  Basically, the cities are stuck at 50% rations until we can get more farmlands.  There is no reason to starve any region in Nothoi, unless the goal is to drive regions into rebellion so they leave Nothoi.

I think that's part of the problem.  If Nothoi gets one more region, they will be at 2.85 below the 3 mark which means the monsters will spike and we'll lose a region.  100% isn't a possibility at this current time without causing the code to work against us.  Speaking on an OOC level, we'd have to give up at least one more city to be able to take 1 rural region.

But other realms on the continent haven't reached 3 noble per realm average. So Nothoi must suffer as well. Nothoi better help other realms reach that goal by attacking them.

Why should a realm that is complying with the desire of the devs be punished?  That more or less is saying we have to try to control what others who we can not even interfere with due to the monster horders.  Nothoi attacking a realm wouldn't help at all as if we take the region, then we fail the standard.  It's a catch 22 there.  That's of course assuming that we could get to another realm without being captured and injured by rouges.  Nothoi only has one border with another realm.

Why though? This system works. It keeps density high by making people lose regions. It has a bit of downside of making people quit the game but it will react to it and make people lose more regions. It will repeat it until people suck it up or the island becomes empty.

Is it?  Has it made any continent at 3 nobles per region?  If the goal is to try to get people to think about quitting out of pure frustation, I would say that the system is aiding that.  As someone quits, it decreases the density which throws it back into a vicious cycle.  You are right that this pattern will continue until players get frustrated enough to just leave the game and the island becomes empty.  If the goal is to empty an island, just sink whichever island you don't want.  Let us know about it.  We won't like it, but it's the dev's call.  If you want to shut battlemaster down completely, not much we could do about it.

If the goal is to reward those who are trying to meet the requirements, it has failed.  We have to try to make others comply even when there's neither a logical IC reason nor a way for us to really even contact most of them.  Remember, we can't just contact a whole realm.  In theory, we could demand their leader tell their people to only settle in x regions.  If we struggle now getting people in our own realms to do it and we are on the same team, do you really think the "other" realms that we may or may not even have a vested interest in will comply?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 11:25:30 PM by daviceroy »

Ketchum

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #97: August 16, 2018, 04:03:10 AM »
My 2 cents which is probably not amounting to much...

In Nothoi, my character is trying to hold onto Creasur.  My character has spent quite a few days in a rouge prison after waves and waves of rouges knock down peasant militia and the troops they have.  Try to get to capitol and it's almost always either injury or getting captured.  Continent density is 2.85.  In theory, this should mean the roaming hordes should be diminishing, but it doesn't seem to have happened yet.  The food situation in Nothoi from what I was told by the previous banker is that we can't feed everywhere.  Perhaps as players we should abandon Creasur, but it's a connection city the helps to bridge a gap between Nothoi and Vales.

In D'Hara, I hear my fellow players frustrations about always doing battle against rouges.  D'Hara is one of those particular states where the primary regions of it has always been on islands.  I've personally brought up proposals in character to reduce us down to a limited number of regions and/or supported moving elsewhere in an attempt to end the onslaught, but both proposals are unfavorable to players.  Right now, it's mainly just trying to make sure the regions don't starve to death, wait for a horde to take it over, reclaims the region, try to rebuild it up and rinse and repeat.

I'm still a fan of a prevention system of retaking regions instead of monsters.  I fear that is this continues with monsters "punishing" density issues, this will lead (if it hasn't with some already) to thinking monsters are the dev's punishment for player population going below what they want.  This could in turn cause players to give up resulting in more "punishment" creating a very negative feedback cycle.
I understand you holding on to Creasur on Belu. My character tried to do the same with Keffa, holding on. However it is a matter of time before the city defense is overwhelmed given the amount of rogue force out there :(

Also to help you with rogue force keep capturing your character as they do to my character. Try Evasive, then try unitless. I believe this will be fixed later too ::)

Also while I do not understand why rogue need gold before free our characters, not that it matters. All this while I have been led to believe rogue spawn from rogue regions, so trying to minimize the rogue regions. It is not my fault, since the rogue pops out next door region and says they will eat the food there so peasants call for help or eat peasants already.

I wonder how many realms will die before this rogue invasion ends. A city that survive without rural regions, how much food needed to feed a city that full of militia. Once rogue invasion ends, there will be no shortage of realms taking rogue rural regions back, bringing back the characters density issue again.

But other realms on the continent haven't reached 3 noble per realm average. So Nothoi must suffer as well. Nothoi better help other realms reach that goal by attacking them.
The best pretense of war ever: I will attack you if you take that city/region. I will attack you to resolve the noble density in this continent/ Your realm must die in order for my realm to live. Sound do-able?

Overall this looks like a short term solution to ever lessening characters density in game. Unless you start to reduce the number of regions. And with many peasants crying in terror from dying by rogue, I wonder how region Population will recover.
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Gabanus family

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #98: August 16, 2018, 07:24:58 PM »
I wonder how many realms will die before this rogue invasion ends. A city that survive without rural regions, how much food needed to feed a city that full of militia. Once rogue invasion ends, there will be no shortage of realms taking rogue rural regions back, bringing back the characters density issue again.

I think this underscores the entire issue. It's also why the monsters/undead prob will never go away entirely (or spawn back up again bigger if density goes down again.

First off, there are two types of monsters basically. Those passing through and those trying to TO your region. Rogues apparently pick a target and move there, but some regions are simply more often in the way then others. So even if your density is lower, if you're in the way of the rogue span and their target, you can still face the stacks (although if you hadn't fought them they'd simply move on away from your lands). Lower density means your regions are less likely to be picked as a target.

Tbh I had expected the rogue forces to be less strong by now, or equal of strength but residing more in rogue regions. This way they'd help ensure realms can't easily TO new regions (or fight the rogues) but those that don't expand are then hit less hard by the rogues.
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daviceroy

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #99: August 16, 2018, 11:35:19 PM »
I understand you holding on to Creasur on Belu. My character tried to do the same with Keffa, holding on. However it is a matter of time before the city defense is overwhelmed given the amount of rogue force out there :(

Yeah, eventually, Creasur will probably end up falling out of player control.  I don't see as a player a sustainable method of holding it.  My character, however, will try to hold it at all costs because of the legacy.

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Also to help you with rogue force keep capturing your character as they do to my character. Try Evasive, then try unitless. I believe this will be fixed later too ::)

They've captured unitless and evasive.  Not sure what the percentage is of rouges being able to find an evasive character, but it's a dice throw there.  Good ideas though...

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Also while I do not understand why rogue need gold before free our characters

Can't speak for other realms or regions, but when your region is hit wave after wave, you have little to no gold.  Add in missing tax day due to injury or capture and it really adds up.  Last time, the rouges wanted 100+ gold to be released.  So, it's stay in prison, lose positions, come back, and then wait for a tax day.

Chenier

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #100: August 17, 2018, 12:56:25 AM »
Creasur needs to be sacrificed to Mordok!  ::)

Yea, in BK we've pretty much given up hope. We'll stuff Wudenkin with militia, and run it on low rations ad eternam. We'll be too poor to afford a mobile army, not that it matters because all the hordes are bigger than we could afford to defeat anyways, but hey, at least we get to enjoy that sweet, sweet density everyone's craving so hard.