Author Topic: Discussion on Monsters  (Read 20742 times)

Medron Pryde

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #60: July 21, 2018, 04:31:14 PM »
The recent monster invasion interrupted the most interesting PVP we'd had on BT since before the last Daimon invasion ended a continental civil war that matched the King of Kings of Thalmarkin and all its allied realms against...everybody else.

Very similar to the current situation in the East Continent actually.

Now we are back to monster fighting...*sighs*

Gabanus family

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #61: July 21, 2018, 10:01:29 PM »
You mean everyone ganging up on 1 small realm? Wouldn't call it that interesting tbh
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Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #62: July 23, 2018, 07:18:57 PM »
Sometimes, it happens when small realms decides do piss off everyone else... at least that was PvP. I played in Goatland and after I deleted my acc to re-start the Serpentis, I joined Angmar... I was in the two sides of the war and I enjoyed both... much more than fighting monsters. Even losing, it's always better to lose to another players. At some point you can negotiate, you can kick off the Ruler and appoint another to negotiate or accept the terms... you cannot do that when fighting against a code.

"We will have monster until you change your mentality" isn't working. Not everyone is at the Forum following the discussions on the "new mentality". People are stubborn... instead of join the new mentality, they will fight monsters until the end and then some will just leave the continent/game. As players, many of us have personal preferences and that reflect in our chars... for example, if I love Madina and Madina lose to the monsters, I will not join my enemies or the realms/players I don't like to play with just because we need smaller realms. All that "playing with friends" is nice, but I saw people avoiding to play with me and sometimes I avoided some of them as well.

Also, you have to consider that, unhapilly, we will always have less players, not more. Sink more islands? Reduce the maps? I don't know, but the monsters aren't working either.
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #63: July 23, 2018, 08:59:07 PM »
1)  It wasn't everyone.  Many realms were remaining neutral.
2)  It wasn't a realm.  It was a secessionist movement against the proper realm of the land.  ;)
3)  Obeah was making noises to support them, and considering how many nobles Obeah has recruited in recent months, that would have been an interesting conflict to see.

feyeleanor

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #64: July 24, 2018, 12:23:56 AM »
What I dislike about the monster situation is the randomness of it. Having constant pressure against expanding too far is fine as long as there's something meaningful realms can do to push at that limit if they're active or their armies are commanded well or they're well-served with adventurers. At least give the damn things some intelligence.

Prior to this latest influx BT was a busy continent with PvP wars in the aftermath of the last Invasion and several realms working in alliance on PvE around the Vales. Now what do we have? Widely separated realms with little contact hanging on by the skin of their teeth. IT IS NOT AN IMPROVEMENT. Just dial down the damn settings and let people get back to what they were working on beforehand.

Frankly this whole issue annoys me. I've watched a decade of devs and vocal players here on the forum trying to dictate how this game should be played and during that time player numbers have crashed. I personally think the two things are quite strongly correlated and as one of those with an atypical style of play (ie who does things which broadly annoy the vocal forces on here) I sometimes feel unwelcome myself.

Yes BM's a text-based web game, yes there are prettier alternatives out there, yes it's developed part-time by enthusiasts, and yes there are players happy to sit on their privileges and not risk them. But it's also a solid strategy game with a strong player-generated background and there are plenty of us who look on power as an excuse to make the game fun for our fellow players rather than enrich ourselves.

Players invest emotionally in their realms. They care about them. Having a realm destroyed hurts and it should do because that means there was something worthwhile about the effort that went in to creating it. The hurt is acceptable when it's caused by another player faction or a GM-controlled event like an Invasion, and it sets up interesting long-term feuds and motivations. It's possible that soon I'll get my revenge for Fontan and perhaps I'll even get payback for Minas Thalion and Alowca in time. I can think of no other game where events from seven years ago have that kind of itch factor to them.

But when a realm is destroyed purely as a result of mechanics designed to enforce a particular view of how the game should be played that frankly sucks. Solve these supposed problems in a way that encourages players, not one which punishes.

Medron Pryde

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #65: July 24, 2018, 09:01:18 AM »
I have lost multiple realms to Daimons.

I don't really care.  I just go on and rebuild.  There's no emotional involvement there.  No great foe to stand against and such.  Just a disembodied foe that comes and goes in time.

But when the Elven Masters of Sirion destroyed Oligarch?  Oh.  THAT I remember.  THAT I continue to fight on and on and ever down that road.

And I enjoy playing that dynamic.  My character is the guy who professes no wish to be involved in political wrangling and will never try to take over or betray the realm he is in.  Because his only goal in life is liberating Oligarch and saving humanity from the Elven Masters of Sirion.  It's a fun role to play and has really taken over that character.

That's the difference in my eyes between losing realms to a generic monstery enemy and another alliance of players.

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #66: July 24, 2018, 12:51:11 PM »
Recover Fontan?
Protect the world against the evil Elven Masters of Sirion?

I (we/us/Sirion) did something right, after all  8)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 01:50:20 PM by Eduardo Almighty »
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
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Zakky

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #67: July 24, 2018, 08:07:29 PM »
Monsters are there to force players to move closer. If you want to cling on to the land then well it will just be a big limiting factor for your expansion. If you want to expand and border another human realm, you might want to give up on the realm located in some remote corner of your continent and join a realm located closer to other human realms to form a denser realm. There are way too many realms with too few players. Either you join other realms to make it denser or stay spread and fight monsters endlessly.

daviceroy

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #68: July 24, 2018, 09:51:33 PM »
Monsters are there to force players to move closer. If you want to cling on to the land then well it will just be a big limiting factor for your expansion. If you want to expand and border another human realm, you might want to give up on the realm located in some remote corner of your continent and join a realm located closer to other human realms to form a denser realm. There are way too many realms with too few players. Either you join other realms to make it denser or stay spread and fight monsters endlessly.

The monsters ironically haven't helped at all with forcing players closer to each other, but rather seen the map get further away from each other.  For example, I remember when realms like Luria and D'Hara had borders with other realms.  Because of the monster invasions, there are holes being created between realms taking up regions that once bordered another player realm.  I remember when Astrum, Sol, HD, Luria and Swordfell were all interconnected.  Now, those connections are separated.  Yes, Luria has no borders with any one realm....

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #69: July 24, 2018, 10:00:07 PM »
Quote
Monsters are there to force players to move closer.

For all I saw, they're just moving away... from the continent/game. Also, even more populated realms are facing the monsters. If the only way to avoid it is to have just two/three realms, maybe would be better to just put an announcement in the front page of BM letting everyone know it. Or, you know, smaller maps.

Even if you put such announcement, I still doubt people will just leave if you let them decide. They will decide for stay and fight till the end and then leave instead to move to another realm. After all, who will decide wich realm should be more populated? With smaller maps, the devs do the cut and you follow or you leave.

Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

feyeleanor

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #70: July 25, 2018, 12:06:28 AM »
Recover Fontan?

Revenge is a dish best served cold, and without the inconvenience of having to do the washing up afterwards ;)

Ketchum

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #71: July 26, 2018, 09:52:44 AM »
Here's my thought and feedbacks.

On Dwilight, I have a character in Morek Empire, maybe the word Empire does not do the realm name any justice nowadays. We have like 2 cities, 2 townsland, 3 rural regions. We even had 1 more rural region(Zhongyuan) at one time, but the rogue threat forced us to give up Zhongyuan to HD. Anyway today HD is down to its last region, Donghaiwei, its capital. Look like HD about to die due to rogue attacks. Location wise Morek Empire cannot expand, as it is surrounded by all its bigger neighbors, Arnor and Astrum. Nobody go and pick fight with someone bigger size than you without allies help, that much for sure. At one time in Morek past history when Avernus Ruler Mayhem wanted to buy Muspel and Muspelheim(1 town and 1 city) from Morek, my character rejected due to his thinking Morek had potential to grow and gain more nobles. Fast forward to present time, we do not fare any better. True we had war with HD, but that war was cut short by rogue attacks. We even ventured to Westgard and D'hara lands at one time to aid them against rogue from the west. We were planning for another war, but then rogue got in the way again. The so-called rogue stuck at sea and cannot on board the sea, then they came in massive waves. Given Morek has many lands near the sea, our realm is unlucky in that geography aspect. So rural region Mark was overrun again. Then Nimh the next rural region. We have region lord for all regions except Mark, trying to attract players through war but war cut short by rogue. We back to square one, maybe we should have sell Muspel and Muspelheim to Avernus for thousand of gold, Mayhem offered us gold, I should have accepted it even though my character ran a Referendum and all last 5 nobles of Morek old did not want accept it. Today as we taken over Nimh and Mark and Aegir Deep, rogue overwhelmed all the defense and rural regions there. Now we trying to form a link between Aegir and Muspelhelm/Muspel through Aegir Deep. But with no rural region to feed cities and townland food, my character is starting to regret that he did not sell Muspel/Muspelheim to Avernus. So in character we should not takeover back any of our lands nor even plan for another war against a human realm. We should sit tight, place 10K CS in a rural region, food is becoming scarce on market. So a few wealthy nobles among us, try invest in cities and boost its Production. If this rogue attack/reduce our rural region/starve us is the way to use up our Family Wealth, yes you have done it, congratulations!

On Beluaterra. My character is recently appointed as Duke of a city in Caelint. Normally everyone will congratulate her. but then the rogue attacks started at the time of her appointment. All the rural regions that link 2 cities in Caelint are lost to rogue. Stuck in the city, placing another 10K CS militia, is that really a long term solution to rogue attacks? Watching rogue keep spawning in rogue lands, each time our army took 1 region, we suffered enough casualties to fall back and refit in our capital, only to repeat it again. Not to mention after rogue attacks that eat up peasants, how do Population of peasants recover so slow.

Overall it appears that everyone stuck at their cities on Dwilight and Beluaterra. Perhaps it is a new way of living on Battlemaster worlds. Get out of cities, you get captured by rogue, enter prison. With every realm at their cities, it is only a matter of time to see which realm blink their eyes first and lose their whole realm it seems. It is like that Survivor show on TV. Who survive the longest, win the prize of Survivor Winner.

Last but not least, I miss Fontan on East Island.
Werewolf Games: Villager (6) Wolf (4) Seer (3); Lynched as Villager(1). Lost as Villager(1), Lost as Wolf(1) due to Parity. Hunted as Villager(1). Lynched as Seer(2).
Won as Villager(3). Won as Seer(1). Won as Wolf(3).
BM Characters: East Continent(Brock), Colonies(Ash), Dwilight(Gary)

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #72: July 26, 2018, 01:43:44 PM »
Quote
Overall it appears that everyone stuck at their cities on Dwilight and Beluaterra. Perhaps it is a new way of living on Battlemaster worlds.

You gave me a good idea for a RP. Despite that, yes, Dwilight and BT are doomed. At least in Angmar we can take a region while another is taken. The circle of (un)life.
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

feyeleanor

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #73: July 30, 2018, 12:34:15 PM »
You gave me a good idea for a RP. Despite that, yes, Dwilight and BT are doomed. At least in Angmar we can take a region while another is taken. The circle of (un)life.

Dwilight I think may still be salvageable, though the mass invasions Luria's had of late don't seem to reflect any appreciable drop in active player count suggesting there are unintended consequences in the underlying rogue spawn mechanics. We have the noble density of Westgard and the Adventurer density of Swordfell do if Luria can't stand against the hordes I don't think there's much hope for anyone else.

Admittedly we're too physically big and our long-planned realm split may change the economics of dealing with the hordes so they become more of a nuisance than an existential threat.

Beluaterra though feels like a lost cause unless we either give up much of our history and merge realms permanently in one small area, or else do something radically different with what the Devs have gifted us. I'm happy to try the radically different and anyone who wants to know what that might look like can contact me IG :)

Chenier

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Re: Discussion on Monsters
« Reply #74: July 30, 2018, 06:38:44 PM »
Luria has as many regions as the next two largest realms combined. It's a little early to say it's facing an existential threat.
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