Author Topic: Priests who lead units  (Read 343 times)

Bronnen

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Priests who lead units
« Topic Start: October 04, 2018, 03:58:24 PM »
I propose that a priest/hero can actually lead a unit. They would gain hours like a normal noble, and move like a normal noble, but would be able to preach.

Possible abuses: None i can think of.

Anaris

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #1: October 04, 2018, 04:38:20 PM »
Nope. This is a primary facet of the differences between priests and other classes.

Also, it would require massive code changes to allow the game to distinguish, in all the places that matter for hours and travel, between "priest" and "priest with unit".

To put this a little in context, it would actually be much easier to create an entirely new (sub?)class that has some preaching ability and can lead a unit.
Timothy Collett

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Zakky

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #2: October 04, 2018, 04:59:09 PM »
Nope. This is a primary facet of the differences between priests and other classes.

Also, it would require massive code changes to allow the game to distinguish, in all the places that matter for hours and travel, between "priest" and "priest with unit".

To put this a little in context, it would actually be much easier to create an entirely new (sub?)class that has some preaching ability and can lead a unit.

PALADINS!!

Anaris

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #3: October 04, 2018, 05:01:09 PM »
PALADINS!!

I doubt we'd call them that. More likely they'd be something like Templars, or I'd look up a better, more generic term for a warrior who's also a preacher.

They'd also definitely not have most of the priest abilities (probably only preaching), and they'd have some clear drawbacks.

They'd also definitely not come any time in the near future.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Shepard

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #4: October 04, 2018, 05:38:39 PM »
Maybe make this new (sub) class not able to recruit units, only get random volunteers like heroes do. With no downsides they would pretty much be Warriors+
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Bronnen

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #5: October 04, 2018, 05:42:09 PM »
I'm perfectly with a new priest class that leads a unit too. I figured it would be easier to just count a priest/hero class as just a hero class with priest abilities.

Zakky

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #6: October 04, 2018, 06:29:02 PM »
Holy Warrior I guess.

Vita

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #7: October 04, 2018, 06:37:03 PM »
Holy Rollers...

Bluelake

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #8: October 04, 2018, 08:09:46 PM »
Can I ask in what way is a priest/hero mortal?
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Stabbity

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #9: October 04, 2018, 08:12:48 PM »
Holy Rollers...

https://youtu.be/BxYQo43dw00

But in seriousness. Call it missionary, and don't require a level 3 temple to change class, so the faith can be spread to savage, heathen realms.
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MTYL

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #10: October 04, 2018, 09:31:20 PM »
Can I ask in what way is a priest/hero mortal?

Certainly!

Right now he is just as mortal as normal priest, i.e. - execution. From what I hear heroes can only die from battle wounds and never infil, magic or clumsiness wounds. And since priests can't participate in battle...

Yup, priest/hero is exactly the same way mortal as a regular priest. Just more heroically.

Back on topic:

I don't think priest/unit leader class makes sense. Three reasons:

1. That would damage the priest gameplay and make the entire class not distinct enough to justify it's existence.
2. That would go against the underlying principle of class division in BM.
3. That would use up a big chunk of Devtime. Devtime that could be spent more productively.
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #11: October 05, 2018, 09:42:50 AM »
I actually really like the idea of a Holy Warrior/Paladin/Whatever.

Give them either the ability to preach or even a passive ability to influence commoners to join the faith.

I also think it would be cool if they had at least some of the Priestly abilities to calm the populace and stuff like that.

It would be a welcome addition to the religious game in BattleMaster I think.

Long term goals for it could be something like moral boosts in regions where the majority of people follow that religion, or even a boost to military units in battle if a Paladin of their faith is in battle with them.  This would obviously be long term and hard to code, but the possibilities are impressive.  And as I said, they would make the religion game much more interesting...

;)

Note that due to the gamebreaking setup of having units moving between turn changes, I would not suggest having priests actually lead units.  And trying to handle them as a hybrid class that could EITHER move as normal units OR as priests would be...a non-trivial task to code...and so something I wouldn't suggest.

Bronnen

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #12: October 05, 2018, 06:40:43 PM »
That's why I suggested any priest/hero class would be effectively treated as a hero, but with the added ability of using his limited time pool to preach.

Like, in the middle ages there were tons of reports of preists/monks leading armed men in battle. Japan had an entire buddhist monk clan of warriors. It wasn't unknown, but it was rare, just like heroes are.

Medron Pryde

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #13: October 06, 2018, 07:03:16 AM »
Oooooh....another idea.

If there is a battle, and there are Paladins in battle, anybody fight on their side who is a member of that religion gets a morale boost of some kind.

And anybody fighting on the OTHER side of the same religion would get a morale DROP of some kind.

Basically, you don't want to fight a holy warrior of your own faith.  It would make wars between realms that share religions an...interesting affair.  And the idea of Paladins on each side cancelling each other out gives me the giggles.  ;)

Now I know a lot of this is "non-trivial" and therefore long range down the road if ever.  But I think it would be fun, and I think it would do a good way of making the religion game more interesting.  It would also encourage more people to get into the religion game, which at the moment it really doesn't.

PolarRaven

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Re: Priests who lead units
« Reply #14: October 07, 2018, 11:42:51 PM »
Since the priest class is so different from all the other classes it would be hard to incorporate allowing them to have units. 
I believe that priests leading troops would also skew the balance of the game due to how the priest gains hours and moves.

Maybe a Crusader sub-class for the Warrior class would be a more obtainable goal.
They could be given some kind of boost when fighting in regions that share their faith or suffer a penalty fighting in regions that do not share their faith.
When they fight a battle in a region, their religion could get a boost in followers (for winning) or suffer a loss in followers (for loosing).
They would have no direct priestly powers, but their actions could have an effect on the regions piety towards their religion.
A Crusader that loots an enemy region that shares his faith could seriously hamper his religion in the region and maybe even be attacked by some of the faithful peasants.

As it stands now, most non-priest members of a religion have little effect on their religion.
Region Lords can build a temple in their region for their religion, but little else can be done by non-priests.