Author Topic: Serious Question: What is with the crybaby mentality?  (Read 94 times)

Gildre

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I am being completely serious here. Lately in BattleMaster, I have been noticing a TON of crybaby antics when things don't go a players way, or when adverse events happen to a player.

It is honestly ruining the game for me. Should every realm just sit comfortably, just battling back and forth over one "war" region? This is a political simulator!! Realms die! Conspiracies are made! People play straight shooting characters, people play psychopaths, people play liars!

But instead of what I would expect to hear like "Hot damn, that guy really got one over on me! I am definitely going to get him back!" I hear a bunch of "Abuse! POWERGAMING! OOC OOC OOC! YOU ARE RUING THE FUN OF THE GAME!" What fun? Yeah man, it is super fun letting you sit as ruler, not interacting with the realm at all. My bad.

Get real. I am spurred to write this because today a player accused me of powergaming. Me. I publicly have state that I don't go on Discord for that very reason. I only engage in discussions on the forum about either game mechanics, or events in the past. I don't play here. I don't conspire, or manipulate. I do that all IG, and IC. And yet, I am still accused of this. Weak.

I don't know. Maybe it is just a reflection of society. And I understand, this a rant and I don't have any solution. I am sorry for that.

I just really don't know how much longer I will play this game if whiners and crybabies keep trying to take the "shake it up" fun out of the game. I didn't come here to play PeaceMaster, and I am not interested in just clicking orders for my unit twice a day. I came here for the player and character interaction.
Svetlana (Highmarch, EC), Idaho (Aren, Colonies), Jessica (Obia'Syela, BT) and Raine (Westgard, Dwilight)

Nosferatus

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I can remember stuff like that happening way back, babies cry.
But then again maybe you are seeing a pattern here, but maybe that pastern exceeds bm it's self.
Western society has been overprotecting their babies creating a fear culture and over cuddling.
Everybody needs to be protected from everything these days.
The internet is beeing censored more and more and people get offended by something that was lame back in the days.
Almost every subject is offensive, especially if it's a joke.
Kids dont learn to deal with danger, bullying or any kind of black swan situation themselves, they'd rather choose not to see it and instead stay in their safe SM friend network bubble.
I agree with the points your making, but i think it might be a bigger problem then a BM problem.

Formerly playing the Nosferatus and Bhrantan Family.
Currently playing the Polytus Family in: Gotland, Madina, Astrum, Outer Tilog

Gildre

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I 100% agree with you that it is a societal problem. No doubt about it, and it keeps getting worse.

I just think it shouldn't be a BattleMaster problem. And I fear that Dev or Admin interaction is going to go up in these cases out of fear of losing players from our already low player base.

This game should be hard knocks.
Svetlana (Highmarch, EC), Idaho (Aren, Colonies), Jessica (Obia'Syela, BT) and Raine (Westgard, Dwilight)

MTYL

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@Gildre

I 100% agree with you about everything. I just never brought it up myself because I've learnt my lesson the last time around - stuff's getting pretty damn toxic pretty quickly when you go to discuss stuff OOC (ie on the forums).

Battlemaster was never supposed to be Player vs Player but rather Character vs Character. Playing as if with a bunch of friends is one of the first rules of BM that is communicated to new players. And yet people still do [email protected]#$ty things, carry grudges, bring IC stuff OOC or OOC stuff IC, form cliques and circles, keep track of people they like and dislike (as people and players, not as the characters they play).

I still find plenty of really good players, players I really enjoy playing with and that keeps me around. But the vicious, whiny assbutt factor is certainly annoying.



Oh and accusing Gildre of powergaming is like accusing eunuch of promiscuity. Unless done for comedic reasons it's absurdly dumb. Hang in there bro.
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Gildre

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It is honestly ridiculous. You are right, as soon as the grey OOC messages start flying people get toxic. It is brutal.

Thanks for the support! I love this game because I don't know what is going to happen next. It is entirely player driven. I once had another player OOC warn me of a potential rebellion, and it pissed me off a lot. I don't want to know! If I can't figure it out IC, then they are doing a good job of conspiring! If they pull it off, then I have to deal with it, roll with the punches.

That is why I fell in love with BM. People seem to think they can "win" the game by getting to ruler and sitting there forever. We should all embrace change, recognize our own faults, and enjoy the fluidity of the game. Sometimes you are on top of the world, other times you are in the garbage.
Svetlana (Highmarch, EC), Idaho (Aren, Colonies), Jessica (Obia'Syela, BT) and Raine (Westgard, Dwilight)

Zakky

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Happens in every game. Nothing new.

Nosferatus

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Happens in every game. Nothing new.

Definitely been ooc chaos many many times before in BM and the game survived them all.
Alot of players have also played player vs player instead of char vs char, not much of that has changed it's always been like that, part of human nature.
In fact players where more ambitious back 10 or 12 years ago and would go way further then you'd imagine for their game.
I think the devs here can write a whole book full of all the ways they encountered people going to far by either cheating, raging, falsly accusing, framing and hacking the game.
Many people quit over accusations or ooc fights and disputes.

However, the way people deal with this seems to have changed in general, it's almost become a norm to be shielded at all times by whatever is deemed offensive, including opinions, jokes, and any anything deemed unfair.
Things seem to be less discussable and become more of a norm war.
But, what ever the opinion is here, a free game cant shield [email protected]#$ from anything.
Unless people are volunteering to pay regularly for the game  :)
I am sure there's someone here is willing to get paid well enough to go through their messages to see if their safe enough for them to read.
Formerly playing the Nosferatus and Bhrantan Family.
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Chenier

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The behavior you are defending has been condemned not only by players, but by the dev team. Sometimes, it's easy to get carried away, doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. Just because it wasn't your intent to juice the game out of every advantage you could, doesn't mean you didn't go too far in this particular case.

I don't think the "crybaby" mentality is any worse nowadays. Heck, I consider it much, much less prevalent than it used to be. Players gridlocking themselves and then asking for special privileges to screw over other players in order to overcome the gridlocks they were the sole responsible for used to be commonplace. Remember how the astrocracies, after completing their hugfest up north, would constantly beg for less restrictions in order to be able to spread the hugfest to the rest of the continent?

That said, perhaps ironically, I will agree with you that realms should be easier to kill. I do feel it makes war mostly pointless when human armies can basically never kill another human realm anymore. However, the line is drawn there: human realms should be killable by human armies. Not adventurers.

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As a old time player that has only been back a week, the Forum to me reveals that this has in no way become more common place then it was before (last actively played in 2013, but have played all the way back to 2007". Recall too that people of all ages play this game, which mean people of many varying mental and emotional developmental states, that is even before we take into account that people of different cultures play, and that at least some of our players (like me) will be designated as being "non neurotypical".

Thus if we wish to be truly inclusive we must keep in mind that some peoples behaviour is not going to fit the "ideal" that we wish for and that there are many good reasons that this will be so.
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Gildre

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That is actually an incredibly important note that we should all keep in mind when interacting with other players. I find that BattleMaster is pretty accepting of other nationalities and the game accommodates all sorts of levels of English very well, but nobody ever really mentions that a player could literally be any age.

That thought doesn't cross my mind often.
Svetlana (Highmarch, EC), Idaho (Aren, Colonies), Jessica (Obia'Syela, BT) and Raine (Westgard, Dwilight)

PolarRaven

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The behavior you are defending has been condemned not only by players, but by the dev team. Sometimes, it's easy to get carried away, doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. Just because it wasn't your intent to juice the game out of every advantage you could, doesn't mean you didn't go too far in this particular case.

I don't think the "crybaby" mentality is any worse nowadays. Heck, I consider it much, much less prevalent than it used to be. Players gridlocking themselves and then asking for special privileges to screw over other players in order to overcome the gridlocks they were the sole responsible for used to be commonplace. Remember how the astrocracies, after completing their hugfest up north, would constantly beg for less restrictions in order to be able to spread the hugfest to the rest of the continent?

That said, perhaps ironically, I will agree with you that realms should be easier to kill. I do feel it makes war mostly pointless when human armies can basically never kill another human realm anymore. However, the line is drawn there: human realms should be killable by human armies. Not adventurers.

Ummm... you sure this was posted to the right thread??
Seems more appropriate for the "Re: Abusive Players?" thread.

I don't believe that anyone here is "defending" the "crybaby mentality".
Not really sure what you refer to by "hugfest".
Nor is anyone discussing the ability to kill a realm in this thread (not until your post anyways).

If I had to guess, I would say that this thread was started from something that took place in the "Re: Abusive Players?" thread.
Since you are the only one that has tied the two threads together, I can only assume that you felt the need to explain yourself here.
But hey, maybe I am reading too much into this.

Chenier

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That's the only active thread concerning "abuse" and "powergaming". And the issue in question is the only such public powergaming one to come up in... years, I think?

"Realms die" is part of the original post.

"Hugfest" refers to... well, how else do you want to call it? Pax astroica? Refers to the period of time on Dwilight when Sanguis Astroism had theocracies and a few very faithful non-theocracies from the northern tip to Barca/D'Hara/Luria. And when they'd regularly come to the forum to whine about distance penalties for the armies, because they basically wanted to be able to crusade against the 1/3 of the continent left that hadn't opted in. They had gridlocked themselves in a series of alliances and federations and were whining for OOC solutions to their purely IC problems. And I bring this up, because, apparently, "lately", BM is full of "crybaby antics". But not a single example is given. And I can't think of any. Other than the one where the original poster is involved, concerning the adventurers using a ton of scrolls against Bara'Khur. So, either there's a bunch of incidents that are nowhere to be seen on this forum, on the discord, and in-game, or the whole post was a thinly-veiled allusion to that single incident. I which case, I'll remind, the devs promptly sided with the "crybabies" (do you think they always just do whatever people whine about, without any further judgement???). The only other "hot" topic I can think of is for the monsters, on Dwilight specifically, but  that hasn't really come up much in over a year.

Maybe read the actual thread, and a bit of the others going around right now, before saying such things?

Gildre

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Ah. No, Chenier, this thread was not about the Adventurer/Bara'Khur thing. Also, I had zero involvement in that whole incident. My creation of this thread was in no way an attack on you or that incident in specific. I apologize if you took it that way.
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Chenier

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Ah. No, Chenier, this thread was not about the Adventurer/Bara'Khur thing. Also, I had zero involvement in that whole incident. My creation of this thread was in no way an attack on you or that incident in specific. I apologize if you took it that way.

Very well.

But then what? Because, seriously, I played this game since 2006, with a year or two hiatus around 2015, and I have a hard time seeing the crybaby mentality today. Especially compared to, say, 2010-2012.