Author Topic: Colonial Master!  (Read 21817 times)

Chenier

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Colonial Master!
« Topic Start: October 19, 2018, 02:31:02 PM »
Name: Dwilight Colonial Master

Summary:
Remove distance from capital penalties on Dwilight

Details:
Dwilight was the Africa of BM, colonization was always in its soul. Back when it was opened, we had the player base to sustain a model of expansion that involved spreading through the wildlands, creating one new realm at a time, and pushing the frontier continuously with more new realms until the whole space was occupied.

But we don't have the player base for that old model, anymore. We barely have enough nobles for the realms it already has, some would argue we'd even be better off with less realms in total.

But the density mechanics combined with the capital radius mechanics have a perverse effect: There is very little incentive for war. Why go fight the neighbor, when the new lands would be beyond your capital's reach, and you'd have a ton of penalties for them? Heck, why attack your neighbor if your realm has already attained the minimum densities the game doesn't want you to go below of?

Hinterlands might help a bit with the latter, but it's really complementary to this idea. Dwilight is testing. It's already the only island with seasons. Maybe we could experiment what it'd be like without the distance from capital penalties for (mercenary) troops and for regions?

Benefits:
Additional conflict, additional things to do for the realms. As it is, the game incentivizes conflict so much, that realms just don't bother. "We've already got all the regions we can hold". "Those regions would be too far, they wouldn't give us anything worthwhile". "The penalties for going so far would make our army completely ineffective".

Dwi has a lot of rogue regions, including a lot of rogue cities. If any realm could sail to take them over, it would certainly FINALLY create a lot of jealousy. "No, WE wanted those regions!" "Well nyuh uh, we took it first!" Successful realms like Westgard and the Lurias could start a colonial rush to secure greater resources, setting up outpost in remote cities, farming far-away lands, and perhaps finally getting some borders with other human realms.

Downsides:
Since this change only concerns 1) region penalties for distance from the capital and 2) (mercenary) troop penalties for distance from the realm, and has no bearing on any other of the density mechanics such as the monster migratory behaviors, the downsides should be limited. At first, it might further dissuade realms from attacking each other, since there will be empty lands to take... but this is both unlikely, and if it were to be, would be temporary as the colonial rush is CERTAIN to create jealousy. Secondly, it'll make some realms more able to project might and bully far-awar realms. Given how little PvP is left on Dwi and in BM as a whole, I'm not convinced this is such a bad thing. And since it's all just a very simple change that doesn't involve the creation of a ton of fancy new mechanics, it should equally be simple to just return things to how they were if we see it doesn't turn out as desired.
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Zakky

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #1: October 19, 2018, 02:39:12 PM »
+100

Remove unit morale penalty caused by distance as well.

Chenier

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #2: October 19, 2018, 02:58:42 PM »
+100

Remove unit morale penalty caused by distance as well.

Yea I included this in the request, though I think it'd be fair to apply it only to mercenary units.

Wouldn't mind it halved on normal units as well, though.
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Stabbity

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #3: October 19, 2018, 06:57:59 PM »
Yes please.
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D`Este

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #4: October 20, 2018, 09:44:06 PM »
Less penalties, more fun!

Nosferatus

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #5: October 21, 2018, 05:47:11 PM »
Yes, and while where at it: reduce the army distance from capital penalty even more for Dwilight, or increase the range where it kicks in considerably as mentioned by Zakky.
Westwards, and onwards to adventure!
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Anaris

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #6: October 21, 2018, 05:48:48 PM »
Yes, and while where at it: reduce the army distance from capital penalty even more for Dwilight, or increase the range where it kicks in considerably.
Westwards, and onwards to adventure!

In case this has gotten lost or forgotten over the years, some time ago we linked distance from capital penalty to apply equally to allies' capitals, so if you're conducting a war in support of a friend, you shouldn't have any problems with that particular nuisance.

(I recognize that there are other impediments to long-distance campaigns, and have Thoughts about how to address them, but as yet no solid Plans.)
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Nosferatus

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #7: October 21, 2018, 06:13:40 PM »
In case this has gotten lost or forgotten over the years, some time ago we linked distance from capital penalty to apply equally to allies' capitals, so if you're conducting a war in support of a friend, you shouldn't have any problems with that particular nuisance.

(I recognize that there are other impediments to long-distance campaigns, and have Thoughts about how to address them, but as yet no solid Plans.)

Where mostly talking about heading/colonizing west and away from everything, including allies.
Increasing distance from capital range for these penalties would be particularly interesting for Dwilight.
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Zakky

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #8: October 21, 2018, 06:45:11 PM »
In case this has gotten lost or forgotten over the years, some time ago we linked distance from capital penalty to apply equally to allies' capitals, so if you're conducting a war in support of a friend, you shouldn't have any problems with that particular nuisance.

(I recognize that there are other impediments to long-distance campaigns, and have Thoughts about how to address them, but as yet no solid Plans.)

I am not a fan of promoting making too many allies to be able to maneuver through Dwilight.

Also, to even travel through the inner seas, you need to ally with either Astrum or D'Hara due to their locations.

Chenier

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #9: October 21, 2018, 08:14:24 PM »
In case this has gotten lost or forgotten over the years, some time ago we linked distance from capital penalty to apply equally to allies' capitals, so if you're conducting a war in support of a friend, you shouldn't have any problems with that particular nuisance.

(I recognize that there are other impediments to long-distance campaigns, and have Thoughts about how to address them, but as yet no solid Plans.)

First I hear of that. Good to know.

But what I'm yearning for is more the potential to sprawl across the map on Dwi, in a way where access to some strategic ports could very much create jealousy between realms, and conflict. Cities like Golden Farrow and Paisly are likely to interest a few parties. The handling of the north-west, which a few realms use differently, as well.

I don't want rogues gone, though, just looking at more options are we press onwards, and the ability to set up strongholds in remote location in an attempt to fight them everywhere.
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Chenier

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #10: October 22, 2018, 04:10:45 PM »
Also:

Make it so that a realm baseline tax can never go below 5% (perhaps halving the size penalties on taxes overall?), and that tax tolerance due to distance from the capital also can never go below 5%.

We need wealth shared across the board, not just in the hands of the ruler/duke/capital lords, which is yet another byproduct of such boons for the capital and debuffs on size.

Perhaps remove the ducal inefficiencies, the one that makes troops less efficient in other duchies, and which means they don't get their taxes in gold in another duchy... because those too strongly inhibit the creation of more duchies and thus the share of wealth.
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Zakky

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #11: October 24, 2018, 11:22:48 PM »
Also:

Make it so that a realm baseline tax can never go below 5% (perhaps halving the size penalties on taxes overall?), and that tax tolerance due to distance from the capital also can never go below 5%.

We need wealth shared across the board, not just in the hands of the ruler/duke/capital lords, which is yet another byproduct of such boons for the capital and debuffs on size.

Perhaps remove the ducal inefficiencies, the one that makes troops less efficient in other duchies, and which means they don't get their taxes in gold in another duchy... because those too strongly inhibit the creation of more duchies and thus the share of wealth.

Personally I think 5% is too low. I'd go with 10

Chenier

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #12: October 25, 2018, 01:22:49 AM »
Honestly, not sure where I'd put the minimum, but I will add that having decreasing tax tolerance from the capital only accentuates income disparity, which in turn tends to make some nobles dirt poor and thus unable to properly participate in the game. And/or regions that just can't afford to finance a knight, if they can even finance their lord, which in turn leads to punishments from density mechanics.
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #13: October 26, 2018, 07:38:12 AM »
Chenier's got a good point there.

The question we have to ask is whether it is more important to punish realms that get too big or to make it easier for players to play?

De-Legro

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Re: Colonial Master!
« Reply #14: October 26, 2018, 01:11:56 PM »
Chenier's got a good point there.

The question we have to ask is whether it is more important to punish realms that get too big or to make it easier for players to play?

Distance from capital was implemented to make it easier for players to play, IE to make it so players in smaller realms had greater chance of survival.
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