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Special Forces

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BarticaBoat:
If I recall, SF are buffed regular types. I remember using melee SF and they were... Melee. I think one or two realms snagged cavalry SF. The whole ranged thing happened because ranged was so much more dominant for years. It's like MI before, it had a use but no one could be bothered to try. Melee SF have a use as well.

I think the special ability was that some SF have defensive buffs? There could be either offensive or defensive.

I could also be remembering totally wrong.

feyeleanor:
I've extensive experience with Ranged SF (about 7 years) both as units and as militia. They're now my preferred militia if I have walls to defend.

Long ago there were definitely special abilities but I've never tracked whether any of my units have had them or what they may be (I try to play without crunching too many stats). The idea that these should only be discovered in combat has always struck me as odd - surely the trainers at the RC should know what kind of training they're providing? Letting the region owner see this information would make more sense and I'm not sure there'd be any great harm in not listing it in the recruitment page.

IME Ranged SF fight better than equivalent infantry in melee and better than equivalent archers at range. A few time I've used them in melee in skirmish formation and not been too disappointed whereas I'd expect MI or archers to be entirely useless at that point. I've not used Melee SF on their own in several years as if I'm recruiting them it's usually for an existing unit with limited recruitment options at that time. From what I recall they punch hard but their casualty rates tend to be as bad as with equivalent infantry or cavalry which makes them a costly option both in gold and time between recruitment cycles.

Overall I'd say SF work best for characters with high honour who want to pack a reasonable punch in battle but still move fast or as militia garrisons for fortified positions. They also add a nice RP touch to the game.

Lefanis:
SF and the 17 year old quest to find the elusive centre bypassing walls... probably one of the biggest red herrings in the game... There are only two "special" abilities that are actually observable, for which we have some data and actual proof. Ranged SF, pretty much jacked up MI- R5 being the best example, and just regular melee SF, which looks like infantry with a RNG modifier to sometimes provide extra hits. There is no magical unit that scales walls, or other insane stuff. If there was, we would have battle reports adorning the wiki about it.

Chenier:

--- Quote from: Lefanis on November 05, 2018, 11:21:24 AM ---SF and the 17 year old quest to find the elusive centre bypassing walls... probably one of the biggest red herrings in the game... There are only two "special" abilities that are actually observable, for which we have some data and actual proof. Ranged SF, pretty much jacked up MI- R5 being the best example, and just regular melee SF, which looks like infantry with a RNG modifier to sometimes provide extra hits. There is no magical unit that scales walls, or other insane stuff. If there was, we would have battle reports adorning the wiki about it.

--- End quote ---

But are melee SF really more like infantry, or more like R0 MI?

Because let's recall, all stats being the same, R0, R1, and R5 SF all cost exactly the same to recruit. And in salaries.

The distinction is important. Because if R0 are more like inf, that means that they are probably much, much better than R5 SF in melee. But from the data I've got so far, I don't think that is the case. I think R0 SF are exactly as good (or bad?) as R5 SF in melee, the only difference is that they are melee-obligate.

Who would recruit R0 MI? With that in mind, why would anyone want R0 SF?

Also, looking into salaries... it looks like equipment quality has next to zero impact on them. + or - 1 gpw on a 100 men unit, according to the equipment. Unit type and training is the real determining factor. A 100 men unit with 100 training will cost from 222 to 224 gold, depending on equip.

What's missing now is battle reports of melee and ranged SF, accompanied with the stats of those SF...

feyeleanor:

--- Quote from: Chenier on November 05, 2018, 01:38:36 PM ---What's missing now is battle reports of melee and ranged SF, accompanied with the stats of those SF...

--- End quote ---

You can find some of those in the older Dubhaine wiki pages but I stopped recording battle reports around April 2013 as I was ultra busy IRL. It wasn't long after that that I cut down to only playing Cathal on the Colonies and essentially played for 2 years exclusively fielding Special Forces. You may find some Colonial players - especially from OT - who have battle reports you can correlate with Cathal's unit stats history if you're interested in crunching the numbers yourself but it'll be a very rough estimate as I don't update stats on every change so as to keep a random factor in there.

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