Author Topic: Where is the magic? (Why I think game is broken)  (Read 4188 times)

Ocean Yong Kiran

  • Knight
  • **
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Okay, I know, I only play two weeks. But.

Maybe new player has better view of things than people with old habits?

Read.

When I pick up Lord of the Rings, when I pick up sword of shannara, when I play D & D, always first thing I do - I stare at the map.

I look at the map very long time. I don't even read book first, I only look at map, and wonder.

What is here?  What is there? Where will we go?

I play Battlemaster, first thing I do is look at the maps. You have WONDERFUL maps! I look, I wonder - what is that place? Who is that country?

Then I play game.

Game is:

"Everyone come takeover this region"

"Everyone refit"

"..." (no one talks realm)

You have the most magical maps, and most bureaucrat game. It is boring.

Maybe if you are king or general it is fun. If not - it is like check morning email. Read, click, next. Boring.

Probably some people think yes, some people think no, everyone say "no time!".

But your maps are magic. I think this is too bad.

I think you need big "lean downsizing". New "Marie Kondo"  ;D

Takeovers - "Does this make me joy?" No - no more takeovers!

WHAT! But always we do takeovers! Not possible!

Yes, is possible. Simply make new, small, fun way to takeoever. Forget is real, is not real. Think only - is fun?

Do for everything. Think only - is this fun? Not "but is necessary!" Only - is this fun?

I think game has too much, can be simpler.

@Anaris makes excellent question to me on other thread - "What DO you want?"

I join knights and sorcery game, I want - explore map. I want fight battles. I want become prince. I want magic sorcerers.

I do *not* want takeover region. I do not want sit in region 3 days waiting for be told where to move now.

So, this is my opinion.

 

Anaris

  • BM Dev Team
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8444
    • View Profile
I'm already working on a way for most takeovers to be faster and easier. It's part of a larger package of changes you can see in my roadmap post.

Fundamentally, BattleMaster is not a game of exploration. It is a game of war and conquest, and the politics and intrigue that go along with that.

It's also not a "knights and sorcery game." Indeed, for several months now we have been deliberately dialing down the amount of magic available in most of the game because most of the player base sees it as too much.

There are times when BattleMaster plays somewhat more like a fantasy novel, but those are the invasions on Beluaterra. Those take a lot of sustained developer/game-master time and effort, and even at their best, there are still many players who feel that they just get in the way of what is, to them, "real BattleMaster"—that is, the more common PvP experience.

But if you joined BattleMaster expecting to play a knight-errant on a rousing adventure....I'm sorry, but this isn't that game, and it never will be.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Ocean Yong Kiran

  • Knight
  • **
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Then I do not understand why any new players want to stay here,  and I think is too bad.

Nice maps.

Thank you to many nice people I meet, but game not for me.

Anaris

  • BM Dev Team
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8444
    • View Profile
Then I do not understand why any new players want to stay here,  and I think is too bad.

Because there are other fun things to do besides being a knight-errant going on rousing adventures to save the world by himself.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

MTYL

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • No personal text here, sorry.
    • View Profile
To be fair there have been some errant knights on rousing adventures and they did just fine.

@Kiran, battlemaster - contrary to what Anaris says - accommodates many different types of gameplay. Some of them more valid than others, most of them entirely possible. Sometimes what devs intend the game to be and what it happens to be are two different things, sometimes they're the same.

I for one played a loyal knight, a mighty general, a power behind the throne, a terrible spy schemer, a couple of adventurers, a rogue commoner asking to be beheaded with his outrageous behaviour, an explorer, a religious zealot. Sometimes I felt like game mechanics accommodate my needs nicely, sometimes I felt like I went against the current. Most of those roles were thoroughly enjoyable.

If your realm is just blind following of orders and you dislike it - change the realm. Or better still - change the realm. (Huh, a pun? A pun!)

@Anaris, I feel like you are too quick to tell people to leave. You might not be giving your adopted brainchild the credit it deserves. Especially considering that BM desperately needs new players.
_____
New family - Arnickles Renodin: Maura(OS), Myr(LN)
Old family - The (dead) Bennets: Max(SF), Joran(VT), Jarra(OS)

Anaris

  • BM Dev Team
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8444
    • View Profile
I am not trying to devalue BattleMaster's experience, nor drive people away. However, if what Ocean is seeking is not here, it is not right to try to deceive him into staying.

It is true that, if one were determined to play it as such, BattleMaster would permit one to play as a knight-errant seeking adventure.

However, if I am reading Ocean's post correctly, I do not believe BattleMaster would ever live up to his expectation, which is that such adventures would be provided to him by the game in a similar manner to a single-player RPG. To sustain such a play style, he would need to essentially write the adventures himself.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

MTYL

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • No personal text here, sorry.
    • View Profile
Yeah that is pretty much correct @Anaris.

@Kiran battlemaster hinges on player interaction. Whether you succeed in finding what you seek depends largely on whether you find people with similar goals or not.

Dwilight and Beluaterra would be the best bet. Not a good bet in any capacity but the best of the poor ones.
_____
New family - Arnickles Renodin: Maura(OS), Myr(LN)
Old family - The (dead) Bennets: Max(SF), Joran(VT), Jarra(OS)

De-Legro

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
He wants a sword and sorcery game. Closest we have is the advy game which he probably can't even access.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

Zakky

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 608
    • View Profile
Definitely not the kind of game you were looking for.

Ocean Yong Kiran

  • Knight
  • **
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
*sigh*

No, I am saying nothing even like that.

I think all of you must delete your accounts and start over as anonymous, for seeing how boring game is if not in power.

But thank you. I look for new game now.

Anaris

  • BM Dev Team
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8444
    • View Profile
Well, if that's not what you're saying—if you think that the overall style of BattleMaster is the game you're looking for—then I invite you to clarify what you meant.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

De-Legro

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
*sigh*

No, I am saying nothing even like that.

I think all of you must delete your accounts and start over as anonymous, for seeing how boring game is if not in power.

But thank you. I look for new game now.

I have no power, I have not had since I rejoined the game after several years away. Nor was I particularity powerful even back when I did have some positions (Duke for all of a week and General for a couple of months)

My only characters since i rejoined have been nothing but knights. I have followed orders and marched around fought when the realm fought and when the inclination takes me participated in realm conversations. Do you really thing it is that exciting to be General, it is actually a position that can be hard to fill since so few players want to do it.

If you don't have power, the fun in working/scheming/networking in order to gain the power you want.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.

Zakky

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 608
    • View Profile
I once had a pretty influential family before I made the current one.

I can tell you the game can be boring for knights when there isn't much going on.

Heck even when you are in power things can be rather boring.

I'd say about 70% of the realms in the game are like that. People mostly being reactionary and going with the flow instead of actually doing something to make the game more interesting. But can you really fault people for being risk averse?

It takes awhile for people to become influential while they can lose that influence really quickly by making one wrong move.

I think the slow pace of BM works both in favor and in disfavor. It is good for those who can't log in often to keep up with the game since it is slow enough. However, since it is slow, it also takes time for people to gain power. Once they gain power, they don't want to lose it so they become passive and risk averse. There isn't much incentive to do much once you reach the top. Only a handful of people who are willing to risk everything to make the game fun usually do something about it then they get antagonized as enemies.

Vita`

  • Administrator
  • Honourable King
  • *
  • Posts: 2550
    • View Profile
But can you really fault people for being risk averse?
Yes. It's a game. Not reality where you are *actually* putting your life at risk. Players used to take huge risks for the wider story and fun. I'd even say by being so risk-averse and creating a less fun environment over actually doing something as part of a wider story arc, they *are* losing the game.

De-Legro

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
Yes. It's a game. Not reality where you are *actually* putting your life at risk. Players used to take huge risks for the wider story and fun. I'd even say by being so risk-averse and creating a less fun environment over actually doing something as part of a wider story arc, they *are* losing the game.

Ha I am risk adverse even in single player games and the ultimate turtle in RTS.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
Now of representation unknown.