Author Topic: 1 Ruler Per account  (Read 6423 times)

Zatirri

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1 Ruler Per account
« Topic Start: March 13, 2019, 02:44:30 PM »
In Taselak I have observed an OOC conversation about implementing a limit on the number of ruler positions that can be held per person.

In order to take the conversation publicly, and to spare spamming in game, I've opened a thread for it.

Foxglove

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #1: March 13, 2019, 03:22:14 PM »
Bad idea. There's a reason individual players have a ruler character in more than one realm - other people either choose not to run against them in elections because they don't want to be a ruler; or, they can't be bothered to write letters and campaign during said elections; or, if they become rulers, they don't put in any effort to try to make their realm (and the game) more interesting. There are numerous realms across the game where people could virtually walk in to ruler (or other government) position if they put in the slightest bit of effort.

Hard restrictions of this sort never work in this game. How would people feel if everyone was forced to play one priest character to revive the religious game, for example? The game works best when it's as open as possible.

Vita`

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #2: March 13, 2019, 04:19:46 PM »
I'm inclined against this proposal.

But I do think there is something to be said for too many players spread out over too many realms resulting in great ease for any old family to collect rulerships by virtue of continuing to exist as a character. This requires community-wide participation to address.

Ohzen

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #3: March 13, 2019, 04:44:20 PM »
Maybe it should become more like a good thing to do instead of making it a rule. After all it takes much time to properly rule a realm and the players sure would benefit from it when someone is fully dedicated to the position.

Red

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #4: March 13, 2019, 05:35:28 PM »
We have families that have rulers in all 4 continents for more than 10~20 years.

There is literally NO DYNAMIC and NO SPACE for new players.

Take a look at the East Continent, it is the same [email protected]#$ for 20 years. THE VERY SAME [email protected]#$.
Sirion and friends always win the war.

Now, please, tell me where is the dynamic in that?

If you disagree with one ruler per account you must be from the "power hungry rulers group" (to not say the "god" group), otherwise there is no way you will disagree with this statement.


1 ruler per account FTW.

Vita`

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #5: March 13, 2019, 05:42:27 PM »
We have families that have rulers in all 4 continents for more than 10~20 years.
That is patently false. There are cases of longterm rulers in a realm, but not of a family ruling four continents for over ten years. The longest ruler character was about ten years, I think. And that was still broken up between three elections iirc. And did not rule any other realms as I recall.

Quote
If you disagree with one ruler per account you must be from the "power hungry rulers group" (to not say the "god" group), otherwise there is no way you will disagree with this statement.
That's some rather fallacious reasoning.

Red

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #6: March 13, 2019, 05:52:44 PM »
I'm sorry my previous msg is not good enough, what you want me to write here that will make you happy?

I already told you, I agree with everything that you said and I am a fool.
I apologize for not seeing the game the way you see.

You are right and I am wrong.
I am so sorry.





How many times you had to push for realm creation because no one else would do it?
Do you think, if you were not a dev you would have had the same results?
What happened to those rulers after? Did they got banished? Did they left the game? Are those families hated or no one else will give them space "game wide" ?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:43:54 PM by Red »

Vita`

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #7: March 13, 2019, 06:21:49 PM »
I see you aren't interested in a productive conversation, but merely increasing community toxicity. If you cannot abide by the social contract or the forum rules of conduct, action will be taken.

Miriam Ics

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #8: March 13, 2019, 08:15:01 PM »
Can we put the start of this?
A character was deleted yesterday and the player gave this reason:

Steon Le Bras has deleted the character Avielour. The reason for leaving was: There may be some person having fun, but I do not know who.Maybe the general who does all the things?

Some people started to give their thoughts about the matter and we ended up discussing this one ruler per family thing (which, I am totally against).

I believe that, having a lot of players, it is wise and fair to not hold too many positions but, as we are now, sometimes we don't have much option.

It would be lovely to have all what was said posted here and so I will copy what I've said.

Quote
We gave space to new players in one of the realms I play and the result was not the expected. It take some time to new players to understand how unique is BM. What applies to other games does not aplly in here. I can tell this.
First ime I was at IRC, coming from another game, I've called Tim "Queen Anaris" and I was told that BM separate IC and OOC so well that we even have this option to message people ooc and this is only one detail that make this game so good.

As K Monks said, if you doesn't like the game, you just leave, quietly. You don't need to make drama. If you want to be a ruler, fight for the position, as you would do in RL. Show you are a leader and you can lead the team to something good. Many of us are in Taselak because we believe Erdogan will lead us so I think its just not fair to blame him.

As for the one ruler per family thing, I believe that if we were back to a bigger player base this will happen automatically. It doens't need to be a rule. If we have some players with many positions now is because we don't have enough players wanting the job.

Thing is, some players put more effort in the game than others and it is because of them that the game still exist.

Eleanor (Dubhaine) should be a example for us on all this. She holds the banker position in some realms just because she is the best banker EVER.
I could never do this job as good as she does.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 08:16:33 PM by Miriam Ics »
"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."

PolarRaven

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #9: March 13, 2019, 09:28:27 PM »
Yes, there are some players that may be power/title hungry.
Yet there are others that hold council positions because no one else will step up to take on the responsibilities involved with some of those positions.

I have seen Banker and General positions sit vacant through two or more consecutive elections because no one was willing to step up to fill the positions. 
I have seen people beg for others to fill these positions. 

I have been Banker in Nivemus for (RL) years now.  Is this a position that I covet and would fight to my dying breath for?
No.  It is a position that I took on long ago because no one else stepped up for it and it needed to be done.
There are regular elections (quarterly, I believe) for the position and I don't remember the last time that anyone put forth a candidacy against my character for the banker position. 
My character took Nivemus from often seeing hungry/starving regions to being a well fed realm.  It took a lot of hard work.
My character has proven herself over time and has earned the respect of her fellow nobles.  They have come to respect her ability to be fair and keep the realm fed (her "job"). 


Sirion is a Republic and Nothoi a Democracy (I currently play in neither realm).  Leaders of these realms are voted in on a regular basis.
Prime Minister Foxglove and Diadochi Kinsey have held leadership of their respective realms for quite some time now.
I ask you, "why is that?" 
There is no reason that someone else could not run for either of these leadership positions and oust either of these leaders, is there?
I suspect, that like my character in Nivemus, they have put the work in and earned the trust and respect of their fellow nobles.
Both of these realms are good sized realms, so you would have to convince many nobles of your worthiness to rule before you could usurp power in either realm.

Do you need a good family name to be considered to be a ruler?
No, all you need to do is prove to your fellow nobles that you are worthy of being followed as a ruler.
If you truly are interested in a leadership position, I suggest that obtaining one would not be too difficult IF you are prepared to put the work into obtaining and holding one.
There are MANY realms with between 10 and 15 nobles. 
This means you could formulate a plan to be the ruler of your own realm by convincing as few as 5-8 nobles of your worthiness to lead them.  I will not get into details or specifics, but if you can convince half (or even less with the right plan) of the nobles in a realm, a ruler position could be yours.

Quit bellyaching about what others have earned for themselves and get a plan together to earn it for yourself.

Ocean Yong Kiran

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #10: March 13, 2019, 10:48:23 PM »
I complain in other thread, but this is my idea:

I do not think it is bad thing (maybe) if one player have many rulers, many generals - this power is only pretend, game power, not real

I think bad thing when one player have all these jobs AND DOES NOT LET OTHERS DO THINGS. This is real bad - now players only sit and wait for what order for today.

Now you have one player making no fun game for many, many, many people.

I do not think a rule in game can fix this very much. I think TAKE AWAY RULES from others is what helps. If you want me to do a thing, show me it more fun than do my own thing instead.

EDIT: Also I have this thought - everywhere is "we are game for play together". But I see these generals never play together. Always is one person say everything. I play in one realm, I ask - "Why never the marshal tell me orders? Only sponsor who is also vice marshal"

So now this one players wants do EVERYTHING, but of course this is too big job, so many players forgotten with no idea what to do.

I think you want group play, first make power people learn how make group play.

Also, maybe PolarRaven shows more about other thing I asked - why so many people want make own realm? Even in small realm, no one want to take positions. Why make worse with own realm?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 11:06:15 PM by Ocean Yong Kiran »

Zakky

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #11: March 13, 2019, 11:28:40 PM »
That is probably why the recent 15 noble limit to secede got added. There are certainly realms that can't even fill their gov positions anymore.

Regarding one person trying to take all the positions, if you see someone trying to do that and not let anyone take a gov position, report that person to the titans.

Abstract

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #12: March 13, 2019, 11:30:35 PM »
Also I have this thought - everywhere is "we are game for play together". But I see these generals never play together. Always is one person say everything. I play in one realm, I ask - "Why never the marshal tell me orders? Only sponsor who is also vice marshal"

So now this one players wants do EVERYTHING, but of course this is too big job, so many players forgotten with no idea what to do.

I think you want group play, first make power people learn how make group play.

Also, maybe PolarRaven shows more about other thing I asked - why so many people want make own realm? Even in small realm, no one want to take positions. Why make worse with own realm?

It usually works like this: a military council discusses strategies for the war, the general decides what to do in the grand scheme of things (e.g. which regions to target or a vague looting run), the marshal decides how to execute this plan (e.g. when to move where, what are the line settings), and the vice-marshal is there in case the marshal is wounded or is unable to give the orders (maybe the player is busy with life that day/week.)

There can be variations to this but generally this is how it works. As you can see, it isn't one person doing everything but a team of players. Want to get involved in the process? Make some plans yourself and send them to the realm or military council.

De-Legro

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #13: March 13, 2019, 11:39:40 PM »
It usually works like this: a military council discusses strategies for the war, the general decides what to do in the grand scheme of things (e.g. which regions to target or a vague looting run), the marshal decides how to execute this plan (e.g. when to move where, what are the line settings), and the vice-marshal is there in case the marshal is wounded or is unable to give the orders (maybe the player is busy with life that day/week.)

There can be variations to this but generally this is how it works. As you can see, it isn't one person doing everything but a team of players. Want to get involved in the process? Make some plans yourself and send them to the realm or military council.

That is the ideal that we wanted back when we said Generals shouldn't send orders to the army. In most realms I have been a part of General dictate every aspect of the war. There may or may not be a council that discuss matters but the General sends out all orders for movement, refit and the like. The marshals only job is formations, pretending you are in a realm that uses them. Otherwise the General orders also include all required line settings.

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Abstract

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Re: 1 Ruler Per account
« Reply #14: March 14, 2019, 12:06:34 AM »
That is the ideal that we wanted back when we said Generals shouldn't send orders to the army. In most realms I have been a part of General dictate every aspect of the war. There may or may not be a council that discuss matters but the General sends out all orders for movement, refit and the like. The marshals only job is formations, pretending you are in a realm that uses them. Otherwise the General orders also include all required line settings.

People are free to speak up and/or protest. If everyone remains silent about it then nothing will be done.