Help with OOC Ban

[Indirik]

...what you have listed: ignoring you, <snip>  changing realms, trying to take over a city, none of those are against the rules.

You are correct. These are not against any game rules. But you can be IC banned for any of this. Or for anything else that the judge deems worthy of a a ban. So long as it does not violate the IRs.

[Indirik]

A question on the mechanics, but do paused characters show up to be banned?  I never made a note of it when my character was a judge.

Yes. Paused character appear in the list of nobles that can be banned. (At least they did last time I was judge. I don't reacall anything that would have changed this.)

[Indirik]

How about you bring this up with some proof about how my actions were intent on abusing game mechanics, especially when the game does in fact allow me to pause and unpause like that, and it is, may I remind you, an Inalienable Right to pause whenever I wish? (Technically: Because I have real life to attend to. In this case it was more like I was simply bored and wanted to cycle to other characters.)

There are several things wrong with this message, and this thread in general:

• Simply because the game mechanics allow you to do something does not mean that doing it, either repeatedly or in a certain manner, cannot be considered abusive. The game will allow you to send 500 messages to your ruler per hour, for days on end. But doing so would pretty much be abusive behavior. "The game let me do it" is not an impervious shield to justify any possible action you can take. That's why we have inalienable rights, the social code, titans, magistrates, etc.
• Nor are the Inalienable Rights an impervious shield to justify and excuse any particular behavior that someone thinks they can twist into falling under their umbrella. Players occasionally try to use the IRs as a way to let them do things to advance their personal agenda while avoiding any IC repercussions of their actions.
• Nor would the fact that the character gets no benefit out of a particular behavior be an indication that a particular action is not abusive or inappropriate. Griefing is a popular behavior that people like to do to piss of other players. There is no IC gain from such an action. But it's still not good.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Hey Indirik, I hope you're reading the fact that I am all for having my character ICly banned (A goal in fact). It is the other part about how apparently this is a player issue.

First of all, how has my pausing and unpausing actually had any impact on other players, besides them wondering why I never play for any long period of time? Is it unduly distracting (Like the supposed 500 messages a day?) that leads to other players decreasing their enjoyment of the game to see me keep pausing and unpausing?

Let's be clear: Before this latest attempt to claim Dyomoque, I did nothing but travel around in my active periods. Joined Sint, found them to be a bore, returned. Heard no complaints there, huh? But once I take an IC justifiable action of attempting to bring in Dyomoque to my own control with a religious takeover, now the ruler of Nothoi starts sweating. Huh, funny how that works.

So if we disregard the RTO attempt (Which was made after an unpause with ample time for countermeasures already) then what exactly, was abusive about me traveling to Sint and back to Nothoi but pausing in-between just because I felt like it? Even the RTO I don't think counts as abusing anything, because that same opportunity and same outcome would have presented itself regardless of any pausing.

Man, as of now I think this is just some way to vent frustrations on me for being whimsical about playing.

[Naidraug]

You forget to mention the other months of equally pause/unpause? It can be annoying.

The fact that you tryed to RTO a city is only a fact that made me think that you want to harm the realm for OOC reasons.

there is no frustration since everything in Nothoi is moving accordinly.

No player issue here...I just see an abuse of the feature with a possible atemptive to harm for OOC reasons and asked a question if this would fit into the OOC ban reasons.

If you want to be banned so much, why not just leave? again...

[egamma]

You can not win BattleMaster. Therefore, playing together is more important to us than playing against each other. We expect you to play the game as you would play a board game with good friends, and to value fair play above any victory or power.

Artemesia, can you honestly say that the way you are playing your character conforms to the social contract guidelines above?

[Indirik]

Hey Indirik, I hope you're reading the fact that I am all for having my character ICly banned (A goal in fact). It is the other part about how apparently this is a player issue.

None of that invalidates any of my prior statements. I'm not passing judgment on this instance of supposed abuse/cheating. I know enough about player behavior, selective quoting, and only revealing info that supports your side of the argument, to know that I don't know enough of this particular case to be able to make a reasonably accurate judgment. so I'm only commenting on the portion of the forum post that I quoted, and the associated inaccuracies of it.

First of all, how has my pausing and unpausing actually had any impact on other players, besides them wondering why I never play for any long period of time? Is it unduly distracting (Like the supposed 500 messages a day?) that leads to other players decreasing their enjoyment of the game to see me keep pausing and unpausing?

I did not say that it was. What I said was that just because game mechanics allow you to perform an action does not mean that said action cannot be done abusively. "The game let me do it" is not an ironclad defense.

... what exactly, was abusive ...

Where, exactly, did I say that what you did was abusive?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I can, in fact, say that my playstyle is no more unacceptable than already established methods of subverting a realm. Look, we can nitpick about language and details all we want, but in the end, as a player, I believe I've done nothing against the rules or spirit of any rules to warrant an OOC ban.

For one thing, the lack of will to contribute does not equate to actively trying to decrease other players' enjoyment. Did I pause/unpause a lot? Sure, but nowhere near as frequently as some people want to claim. Check my character logs if you wish. In the year 2011, I have paused/unpaused Ramuh probably less than 10 times total (I count a pause/unpause as one instance). Is that a lot? Over a time period of 6 months?

I will continue to assert that had I not tried an RTO no one would have made any noise and left me to my own devices. The fact that this was disruptive meant they said something. But let's not allow the background issue confuse us about the issue at hand. Either:

1. There is a complaint about my pausing/unpausing being highly disruptive.

2. There is a complaint about me doing an IC action.

I did not attempt to bypass any mechanics, and devs who have worked with me in the past would know that, however rough and controversial I may be, in the end I am honest in my play.

[vonGenf]

If you want to be banned so much, why not just leave? again...

Being banned is part of the game. It is something people may want to experience. To do that, you need to make enemies. It seems he has made enemies.

There is no fun in just leaving. He wants to leave a mark.

[Chenier]

So, I think this is the right place.

I have a problem in my realm, there is a player/char who pauses and unpauses his char every day (last time he pause was 12h ago, and he unpaused just 1h ago), and travel alone.

I didn't think this was possible. I thought there were like at least 3 or 4 turns before one can unpause.

Pausing is meant to compensate for ooc inactivity, and the game clearly states so. It should not be abused.

That being said, as others have pointed out, pausing offers little protection. It does not prevent bans.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

That is true. This event seems to be a strange exception, and I wasn't actually expecting to be capable of unpausing. But since I did, I figured, meh, might as well play the guy.

In addition, I am quite unhappy with how Naidraug claims that I am a "player/char who pauses and unpauses his char every day" because truth be told, that has never happened except for this most recent case. In fact, every time in the past I couldn't do that everyday even if I wanted to.

Like I said, check my activity logs if those exist, let the statistics speak. Due to my nature y'all are probably thinking "Ah, Artemesia, evil bastard!" but whatever, really. If worse comes to worst, I'm cool with refraining from any active characters in-game.

[Chenier]

I'm not judging your specific case, as I haven't bothered with any of the details. If he wants a judgement, he'll have to go through the official procedure.

[Perth]

This is silly.

If your character doesn't like his character, for perceived harmful actions to the realm or because of his funny hairstyle, just IC ban.

Problem solved. I don't understand why this has become such an issue.

[Naidraug]

This is silly.

If your character doesn't like his character, for perceived harmful actions to the realm or because of his funny hairstyle, just IC ban.

Problem solved. I don't understand why this has become such an issue.

This has nothing to do with my char not liking his char.

I saw something I considered abuse, and came here to see if would give grounds for OOC ban. The IC issues I solved IC.

[Velax]

He came here asking for advice on an OOC ban. I've done the same before. I don't think it's become a huge issue. <shrugs>