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Alliance Size Restrictions Discussion

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Zakky:
It will also put a limit to how many realms you can be at peace with.

De-Legro:
As someone that doesn't play powerful characters, how much of a change is this making? How many power blocs need to be rearranged? How much smaller must they be to fit within the new criteria?

Zakky:

--- Quote from: De-Legro on May 23, 2019, 01:59:09 AM ---As someone that doesn't play powerful characters, how much of a change is this making? How many power blocs need to be rearranged? How much smaller must they be to fit within the new criteria?

--- End quote ---

I believe it is 1/3 of human owned lands? For the Lurian Bloc, they are 7 regions over the limit.

On EC, the northern alliance I think is over 29 regions or something.

Anaris:
Since all this information would be easy to compile from public data given some time and math, here are the alliance blocs that existed at the time the warnings were sent (roughly, at least):

EC:

Alliance bloc above limit: Sirion, Caligus, Nivemus, Eponllyn, Shadowdale, and Redhaven
Regions: 69
Over by: 30

BT:

Alliance bloc above limit: Thalmarkin, Ar Agyr, Gotland, Grehkia, Shattered Vales, and Obia'Syela
Regions: 68
Over by: 35

Colonies:

Alliance bloc above limit: Lukon, Oritolon, Halcyon, and Portion
Regions: 23
Over by: 4

Dwilight:

Alliance bloc above limit: Madina, D'Hara, Astrum, Morek Empire, Arnor, Westgard, and Avernus
Regions: 64
Over by: 28

Alliance bloc above limit: Luria Nova, Swordfell, Sol, Luria Ferrata, and Tol Goldora
Regions: 42
Over by: 6

pcw27:

--- Quote from: Constantine on May 18, 2019, 10:19:40 AM ---So this change was implemented a while ago and almost no one even noticed because it was not enforced on existing alliances. Until some existing alliances had to be reshuffled and it turned out that once enforced this change was a massive kick in the gut for many people.

Guys. I understand that realms gravitating to two huge blocs and engaging in massive wars South Isle style (which sorta happens on all continents atm) is not how the game was supposed to work. But I really don't think blunt solutions like simply restricting alliance size is the right decision here.
Just like simply cutting continents in half was not the right solution for player density issues.
The fact is that restrictions always detract from the game. Let's try something else.

There are just so many ways to keep the wars local and prevent neverending world wars. I don't think this should even be about alliance sizes. There have to be more subtle solutions.
Just off the top of my head - if a realm declares war on someone it does not share borders with or is just way too far away in general, hit their population with increased morale malus over time, causing unrest and forcing it out of the war eventually. This alone will prevent the "pile-on" wars.
Or increase the "fighting away from home" malus on soldiers/increase pay the farther the troops march from own realm's borders.

I just really think soft caps are better than hard caps. The game is alwats more fun when it's about decisions, not just restrictions. Arbitrary restrictions make people feel frustrated and leave, decisions actually make the game more challenging so even if some people do feel frustrated they at least don't feel powerless, they can still do what they want to an extent.
I don't want people to simply be unable to form whatever alliances they wish. I just want them to have to calculate how long can they afford to wage an overseas campaign to help their ally without destabilising their own realm, for example.

Let's discuss.

--- End quote ---

I definitely agree with this sentiment. More population control effects are a good idea. As we see in the real world excessive international commitments can lead to a nationalist backlash. If we want to explore the idea further and make it even more player oriented, perhaps large alliance blocks can facilitate the abilities of diplomats and priests (and we should give infiltrators this ability too) to lower opinions of allied realms.

I remember the Northern Astroist Federation a few years back seemed unassailable, yet ultimately political factors caused it to break up. I was in that block playing a character who was in favor of it and yet looked forward to its eventual downfall. There's even a forum thread I started on here "101 Ways to Destabalize the Northern Astroist Federation". If we could make that happen with no new rules to facilitate the process surely we can come up with something better than just an arbitrary limit to keep realms in check.

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