Author Topic: Dave's Galaxy  (Read 534582 times)

Vellos

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1410: November 24, 2011, 03:03:36 AM »
This is a fantastic idea. Still doesn't solve the 1 scout defense problem, but does somewhat address the player inequality problem.

It does, somewhat. Eliminate scout defense entirely, and small powers will still have a strong chance in war.

But we need to admit something. There are huge empires. They can AND SHOULD be able to destroy small powers without overwhelming effort. Probably, any even reasonably fair system will result in big powers having a BIGGER advantage than presently.

The advantage we want to remove is the advantage of ACTIVITY. Just because you can devote hours of time to building scouts on each planet shouldn't mean you always get to win. What is needed is a passive defense improvement that reduces the burden of activity, and simultaneously relatively strengthens smaller powers enough to compensate them for the lost "playtime-per-planet" advantage.

Two things in combination could do this:
1. Aforementioned empire size-capitulation ratio
2. "Waste": bigger empires have rising upkeep costs for upgrades. A new player might pay 20% of GDP for an upgrade. A player the size of uranus might pay 30%. Across the whole empire, applied to every upgrade, this could have huge effects on the long-term warmaking capabilities of big empires. Similar efficiency penalties could be levied on production of resources.

Between these two, small empires would have relative production and conquest advantages.

They will still lose if attacked by a huge empire. This is as it should be. We should not create a game where your success in expansion yields no advantages. What is different is that passive defense will be better for small empires than big ones, and active defenses will have to be more focused on specific, strategic planets rather than dispersed to every planet. Simultaneously, small empires will be relatively more efficient: if 10 allies could costlessly coordinate their strategies, they would have an advantage over an empire equal in size to their combined size.

Penalizing empire size promotes alliances and diplomacy at the expense of infinite expansion. This in turn promotes RP, involvement, and communication. This builds a game community. But it will NECESSITATE a message system that isn't completely !@#$ty.
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Dav3xor

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1411: November 24, 2011, 09:11:26 AM »
\ of the big design questions revolves around this, and also how to balance paying players VS the free players that don't generate income directly, but are necessary to give the paying players targets and make sure there is sufficient players on the servers. So far Dave doesn't have the second problem, but he will still need to address power imbalance between big players and small players if he wishes to continue to attract new players.

Actually, there's already a couple mechanisms nobody talks about that keep new players alive.  I see plenty of new players who don't get blown away immediately.  The placement algorithm (at least the latest one, maybe not so much with the old algorithm from a few months ago...) puts new players were they have plenty of room to maneuver.  I also leave players who stop playing in the game instead of removing them, so there's generally easy pickings available to the players who want to expand.  And yes, I'm going to do more stuff to counterbalance the larger players. 

Oh, and I will never provide in-game advantages to paying players, not my style.
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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1412: November 24, 2011, 09:34:20 AM »
Actually, there's already a couple mechanisms nobody talks about that keep new players alive.  I see plenty of new players who don't get blown away immediately.  The placement algorithm (at least the latest one, maybe not so much with the old algorithm from a few months ago...) puts new players were they have plenty of room to maneuver.  I also leave players who stop playing in the game instead of removing them, so there's generally easy pickings available to the players who want to expand.  And yes, I'm going to do more stuff to counterbalance the larger players. 

Oh, and I will never provide in-game advantages to paying players, not my style.

Placement gives them room to expand a bit, sure, but they are still often (from my understanding) close enough to big empires so that at least one or two of them can, if he wants, send hundreds of fleets just to take on a nice developped planet. What is to save them from this?
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Vellos

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1413: November 24, 2011, 06:10:14 PM »
And players like Oldry (few planets, but developed planets, and hyper-aggressive to homeworlds) will tend to have new players spawn near them.
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Nathan

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1414: November 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM »
So yeah, I finally have reliable internet connection back. I've just been logging into DG via mobile to stop myself going inactive. The lovely warning on the DG main page is very correct, rather hard to do things easily (at least, on an iPhone it is). Luckily I was able to struggle through putting Mind Control on a handful of planets.

I probably won't be expanding much near my home planet any more, so if Kai/Tom/Largan want to grab a load of planets right up to my current ones, feel free. I want to start sending arcs out to remoter areas and set up there. So I've got patches of my empire scattered around the galaxy. I'll probably expand a lot more in the centre of the galaxy though, maybe only up to PD range from (1500,1500) though (in case De-Legro wanted to expand around me :P).

I'll add BardicNerd to the front page now too.

Oh, and I will never provide in-game advantages to paying players, not my style.

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Tom

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1415: November 25, 2011, 09:47:08 PM »
And players like Oldry (few planets, but developed planets, and hyper-aggressive to homeworlds) will tend to have new players spawn near them.

Yeah, Oldry bugs me. He's sent 35 cruiser fleet right into my empire a couple turns ago. Non-aggressive so far, but I wonder WTF he thinks he's doing. I have a 250 cruiser fleet on its way to meet him and "escort" him, just so his scouting/pirate/whatever gets blown out of the sky the moment it does anything funny, but still I wonder what he's up to.

Nathan

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1416: November 25, 2011, 10:46:03 PM »
Yeah, Oldry bugs me.


He doesn't seem to bother me. I was at war with him a bit back, but I fobbed out since I realised I'd be on holiday and at war with him - not something I wanted. So I just said "look, you can't beat me, I can't beat you, so peace?" and he went for it.

Kai

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1417: November 25, 2011, 11:59:10 PM »
I surrounded his planets with blackbirds and kill most of the stuff he sends out.

Nathan

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1418: November 26, 2011, 12:37:17 PM »
I surrounded his planets with blackbirds and kill most of the stuff he sends out.

Nice. How close do you think you are to moving in and taking the planets?

Vellos

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1419: November 26, 2011, 09:32:47 PM »
Nice. How close do you think you are to moving in and taking the planets?

Not generally possible. Scout defense.

I'm in the process of building PD within his PD for one planet, then will spam blackbirds onto his planet to "target" his ships. What I want to know is if PD happens before planetary assault, and if PD can shoot ships set to "planetary defense" on other planets. If it does, I might be able to PD through Oldry's scouts if he tries a scout defense, and thereby launch an invasion fleet. I have 1.5 million steel saved up for the attack. Goal is 3 million. If I fail, then I will have learned that it is, in fact, impossible to conquer an actively defended planet. If you can't do it with the assistance of PD and 3 million steel, then I just don't believe you can do it.
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De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1420: November 26, 2011, 11:48:12 PM »
Not generally possible. Scout defense.

I'm in the process of building PD within his PD for one planet, then will spam blackbirds onto his planet to "target" his ships. What I want to know is if PD happens before planetary assault, and if PD can shoot ships set to "planetary defense" on other planets. If it does, I might be able to PD through Oldry's scouts if he tries a scout defense, and thereby launch an invasion fleet. I have 1.5 million steel saved up for the attack. Goal is 3 million. If I fail, then I will have learned that it is, in fact, impossible to conquer an actively defended planet. If you can't do it with the assistance of PD and 3 million steel, then I just don't believe you can do it.

Nope, PD takes place after assaults but before fleet combat.
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Vellos

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1421: November 27, 2011, 01:21:26 AM »
Nope, PD takes place after assaults but before fleet combat.

Well damn.

Then I'll still build the PD, and send in some blackbirds to shoot down anything he may have lingering around. But I guess I won't be taking the planet.
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De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1422: November 27, 2011, 02:04:23 AM »
Well damn.

Then I'll still build the PD, and send in some blackbirds to shoot down anything he may have lingering around. But I guess I won't be taking the planet.

I'm doing the same, just to annoy him. Then I'm going to go after some of his other planets. I've got a few hundred Arcs travelling to my new core areas so I'm kind of bored while I wait for them to arrive.
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Vellos

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1423: November 27, 2011, 03:11:44 AM »
I'm doing the same, just to annoy him. Then I'm going to go after some of his other planets. I've got a few hundred Arcs travelling to my new core areas so I'm kind of bored while I wait for them to arrive.

Yeah... I have nothing better to do with my resources, so I'm just engaging in a sort of protracted galactic trench warfare.
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Dav3xor

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1424: November 27, 2011, 09:23:24 PM »
Yeah... I have nothing better to do with my resources, so I'm just engaging in a sort of protracted galactic trench warfare.

Yeah, I gotta fix this.   sorry gents.  :(
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