Author Topic: Dave's Galaxy  (Read 529358 times)

Vellos

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1245: November 08, 2011, 11:51:31 PM »
At the moment I use routes to delineate the border I agreed with a massively bigger ally. It avoids me accidentally breaking our agreement, but it would of course be very useful to have a way to draw up something like that for the ally to see too. If it is an idea for the game it would be nice to have that as a separate option too thought, as I also use routes for other info now, which I don't necessarily want my ally to see.

I do the same thing.
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Nathan

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1246: November 09, 2011, 12:02:29 AM »
I'm not ENTIRELY happy to have you so close to my expansion area in the core, its true.

:(

Does anyone use Slingshots? The upkeep seems rather expensive. I could see using them on my few core high production military planets but other then that I don't know that they are worth the cost.

I've got them on a few planets. Mainly ones that my merchants visit often.

At the moment I use routes to delineate the border

I use routes to point to other BM players' home planets.

Qyasogk

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1247: November 09, 2011, 12:15:13 AM »
At the moment I use routes to delineate the border I agreed with a massively bigger ally. It avoids me accidentally breaking our agreement, but it would of course be very useful to have a way to draw up something like that for the ally to see too. If it is an idea for the game it would be nice to have that as a separate option too thought, as I also use routes for other info now, which I don't necessarily want my ally to see.

Over on the DG Forum I came up with a proposal to do just that.


I also came up with a way of graphically differentiating fleet strengths, which I saw that a couple of you asked for.


I'm not sure I've convinced Dave that any of you guys are interested in this yet, so your contributions and feedback are welcome!

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1248: November 09, 2011, 03:48:15 AM »
Good to have you on the forums, Qyasogk. As you can see from the number of pages, we are quite into Dave's Galaxy.

As for your idea, I would prefer a border system based more upon the regional government ranges of planets, once they get to that society level. This is because outside of those planets able to support a regional government, any claims you have are hard to effectively cement. Sure, you can send in fleet, but your fleets have to travel for at least a couple days just to get outside the range of the regional government which really limits what you can do to enforce it.

De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1249: November 09, 2011, 03:52:06 AM »
Good to have you on the forums, Qyasogk. As you can see from the number of pages, we are quite into Dave's Galaxy.

As for your idea, I would prefer a border system based more upon the regional government ranges of planets, once they get to that society level. This is because outside of those planets able to support a regional government, any claims you have are hard to effectively cement. Sure, you can send in fleet, but your fleets have to travel for at least a couple days just to get outside the range of the regional government which really limits what you can do to enforce it.

And what do you do when regional governments overlap? In several cases I have players well within my established regional governments, and if I was to build them on my border planets, well that would bring alot of planets within my "territory"
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1250: November 09, 2011, 03:56:28 AM »
Then the territory that overlaps is contested. Duh.

Anyways, you're thinking too much of borders in the conventional sense. This is a space game, and the time for travel makes anything beyond the immediate space around your planets contestable by others.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 04:07:25 AM by Gustav Kuriga »

De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1251: November 09, 2011, 04:15:11 AM »
Then the territory that overlaps is contested. Duh.

Anyways, you're thinking too much of borders in the conventional sense. This is a space game, and the time for travel makes anything beyond the immediate space around your planets contestable by others.

Are you currently allied to me? If so take a look at where I am fighting Flyingmana. As well as fighting along our borders I have sent out sizeable fleets to far off outpost and even core area's that I'm not close to. It takes time but if you plan it right its still entirely possible to contest far off holdings. If anything the time helps me, since I doubt he was expecting several 200 destroyer fleets to appear on those particular borders.

Of course they can just rely on the 1 scout defence, but as Flyingmana is finding out, if your enemy uses that tactic, you simply CAN'T contest any of their planets distance becomes irrelevant.
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1252: November 09, 2011, 05:15:10 AM »
You just proved my point, you know... lol.

In fact, that very much reminds me of a real world reference. During WWII, in the North African campaigns Rommel was able to advance not because he had numerically superior forces, or that his tanks were overwhelmingly better. He was able to advance because the British thought of the front as a solid line, when in fact, because of the expanse in which Rommel had to maneuver in the deserts. There was no such thing as a solid front, which is the same thing I'm trying to get across for Dave's Galaxy. You can be flanked from any direction, at any time.

De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1253: November 09, 2011, 05:26:45 AM »
You just proved my point, you know... lol.

In fact, that very much reminds me of a real world reference. During WWII, in the North African campaigns Rommel was able to advance not because he had numerically superior forces, or that his tanks were overwhelmingly better. He was able to advance because the British thought of the front as a solid line, when in fact, because of the expanse in which Rommel had to maneuver in the deserts. There was no such thing as a solid front, which is the same thing I'm trying to get across for Dave's Galaxy. You can be flanked from any direction, at any time.

Actually no, I didn't. I am contesting HIS planets, DEEP inside his OWN territory. Thus the idea that planets just outside of your sphere are contestable is redundant, EVERYTHING is easy contestable, immediate space is not protected in any meaningful way.

You also ignore the fact that the "contested" regions I first proposed would be in their immediate space, since I we referring to planets I had colonised right next door to their own planets, often only 1-2 days travel. The entire premise of being able to "cement" your claims within a regional tax border is what I was suggesting was wrong, subsequent discussion just proved that basing borders on that domain exclusively was flawed if we are trying to consider what space would be easily defended and held.

Finally I prefer the non-automatic system, since it encourages player communication and diplomacy far more then some arbitrary algorithm.
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Chenier

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1254: November 09, 2011, 06:32:41 AM »
How does one communicate with others?
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De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1255: November 09, 2011, 06:40:00 AM »
How does one communicate with others?

The messages link up on the top right of the screen. You can only communicate with neighbours though.
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1256: November 09, 2011, 06:50:42 AM »
A proper look at WWII history would show that is exactly what Rommel did to the British... he pushed well past the so called "front line" deep into territory supposedly under British control and hit them at the core of their army, where the command posts and fuel depots were.

Anyways, I prefer a role-played border as well, I was just putting in a suggestion if we ever did make borders a hard-coded reality. So we're arguing over semantics.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 08:21:58 AM by Gustav Kuriga »

De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1257: November 09, 2011, 07:05:32 AM »
And if you were a proper student of history, you would realize that is exactly what Rommel did to the British... he pushed well past the so called "front line" deep into territory supposedly under British control and hit them at the core of their army, where the command posts and fuel depots were.

Anyways, I prefer a role-played border as well, I was just putting in a suggestion if we ever did make borders a hard-coded reality. So we're arguing over semantics.

That was the whole concept behind the Blitzkrieg in general, it was never limited to Rommel and the African campaign. As an Australian and a ex military officer I am quiet aware of the African Campaign, the siege of Tobruk is second only to the Gallipoli landings in terms of importance to Australian Military Culture.

Thus I know that the initial push by Rommel took advantage of circumstance more then anything, as he pushed far past his planned advance due to a combination of British forces having been weakened to reinforce the Greek front, and a reluctance of the British forces to engage as they over estimated the German forces strength. Rommel took advantage and harried their retreat, which prevented them from reforming and building defensive works, resulting in a surprising fast advance.
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Qyasogk

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1258: November 09, 2011, 07:12:04 AM »
Good to have you on the forums, Qyasogk. As you can see from the number of pages, we are quite into Dave's Galaxy.

As for your idea, I would prefer a border system based more upon the regional government ranges of planets, once they get to that society level. This is because outside of those planets able to support a regional government, any claims you have are hard to effectively cement. Sure, you can send in fleet, but your fleets have to travel for at least a couple days just to get outside the range of the regional government which really limits what you can do to enforce it.

I've been lurking for quite a while, so even though I haven't posted much, I'm familiar with most of you.

This all started out as a desire to enhance the player vs player relations beyond the default 3 states "War - Neutral - Allies" with the additional gradients of Tributary, Hostile, Unfriendly, Friendly and Protectorate. Right now you can't really attack someone without being at War with them. But if you had a player marked as Hostile and they were found inside your "territory" then you could attack without declaring war. But then you have to know where your territory is, and that means borders.

The idea behind having "borders" was mostly as a role play device, an expression of power and authority, either recognized by your neighbors or a point of contention. So the arguments about how borders are not real ARE valid, but besides the point. If India and Pakistan agree on a border, then there is peace. But if say both sides lay claim to Kashmir, then they COULD go to war, but what they've actually done is sort of cold war, where they support proxies to poke the other side in the eye, but neither side has been willing to go "all the way".

I have no problem saying that you have to have a Regional Government in the area to draw a border. Or that you have to have 10 contiguous star systems to be able to draw a border. Or that if you're in an area that has more than two "owners" then no one gets to draw a border. And if you've got a world inside my border, and we're both ok with that, then there's no reason why its a problem.

One of the reasons why I like DG is because its kind of like playing Risk only we're drawing the map as we play, and the map is effectively infinite in all directions. Only it does make the beginning of the game last forever!

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1259: November 09, 2011, 08:24:44 AM »
That was the whole concept behind the Blitzkrieg in general, it was never limited to Rommel and the African campaign. As an Australian and a ex military officer I am quiet aware of the African Campaign, the siege of Tobruk is second only to the Gallipoli landings in terms of importance to Australian Military Culture.

Thus I know that the initial push by Rommel took advantage of circumstance more then anything, as he pushed far past his planned advance due to a combination of British forces having been weakened to reinforce the Greek front, and a reluctance of the British forces to engage as they over estimated the German forces strength. Rommel took advantage and harried their retreat, which prevented them from reforming and building defensive works, resulting in a surprising fast advance.

My bad then. I also realized how I had made my post into a personal attack, and made some edits. I hope I can apologize for my rude tone.