Author Topic: Dave's Galaxy  (Read 529022 times)

Vellos

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1425: November 28, 2011, 04:10:31 PM »
Yeah, I gotta fix this.   sorry gents.  :(

Here's an idea how:

It does, somewhat. Eliminate scout defense entirely, and small powers will still have a strong chance in war.

But we need to admit something. There are huge empires. They can AND SHOULD be able to destroy small powers without overwhelming effort. Probably, any even reasonably fair system will result in big powers having a BIGGER advantage than presently.

The advantage we want to remove is the advantage of ACTIVITY. Just because you can devote hours of time to building scouts on each planet shouldn't mean you always get to win. What is needed is a passive defense improvement that reduces the burden of activity, and simultaneously relatively strengthens smaller powers enough to compensate them for the lost "playtime-per-planet" advantage.

Two things in combination could do this:
1. Aforementioned empire size-capitulation ratio
2. "Waste": bigger empires have rising upkeep costs for upgrades. A new player might pay 20% of GDP for an upgrade. A player the size of uranus might pay 30%. Across the whole empire, applied to every upgrade, this could have huge effects on the long-term warmaking capabilities of big empires. Similar efficiency penalties could be levied on production of resources.

Between these two, small empires would have relative production and conquest advantages.

They will still lose if attacked by a huge empire. This is as it should be. We should not create a game where your success in expansion yields no advantages. What is different is that passive defense will be better for small empires than big ones, and active defenses will have to be more focused on specific, strategic planets rather than dispersed to every planet. Simultaneously, small empires will be relatively more efficient: if 10 allies could costlessly coordinate their strategies, they would have an advantage over an empire equal in size to their combined size.

Penalizing empire size promotes alliances and diplomacy at the expense of infinite expansion. This in turn promotes RP, involvement, and communication. This builds a game community. But it will NECESSITATE a message system that isn't completely !@#$ty.

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fodder

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1426: November 29, 2011, 06:43:37 PM »
and multies...
---
misspoke earlier.. there is capital. it's got a thin circular ring to it, outside of the thick one.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 06:49:14 PM by fodder »
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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1427: November 30, 2011, 12:00:21 AM »
for gods sake dont quote your own post from jut 1 page ago

Nathan

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1428: November 30, 2011, 12:19:14 AM »
I'm off on holiday tomorrow, won't be able to access Dave's whilst I'm away.

I've set up some defences so hopefully I won't lose anything whilst I'm gone. If I do get attacked, you're all more than welcome to avenge my losses :P

Chenier

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1429: November 30, 2011, 12:21:24 AM »
I'm off on holiday tomorrow, won't be able to access Dave's whilst I'm away.

I've set up some defences so hopefully I won't lose anything whilst I'm gone. If I do get attacked, you're all more than welcome to avenge my losses :P

All right, I'll just send a few fleets to "defend" you now. :P
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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1430: November 30, 2011, 03:48:56 AM »
Yeah, I basically agree with both of Vellos' ideas, modifying the capitulation chance by empire size should be an easy thing to do, and I think it's a good idea.

I have some different ideas on how to limit growth,  but Varying the upkeep cost of upgrades is easy to implement, and I will do that as well.
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Dave of Dave's Galaxy

De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1431: November 30, 2011, 03:50:56 AM »
Yeah, I basically agree with both of Vellos' ideas, modifying the capitulation chance by empire size should be an easy thing to do, and I think it's a good idea.

I have some different ideas on how to limit growth,  but Varying the upkeep cost of upgrades is easy to implement, and I will do that as well.


oh dear, should I turn around all my arcs?
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Chenier

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1432: November 30, 2011, 03:52:35 AM »
I looked at the universe for the firs time today. Ain't that big! How many people do you figure are sending arcs to the far opposite side of the galaxy? :P

Also, anything special in the core?
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De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1433: November 30, 2011, 04:04:08 AM »
I looked at the universe for the firs time today. Ain't that big! How many people do you figure are sending arcs to the far opposite side of the galaxy? :P

Also, anything special in the core?

Only thing special in the core are planets I plan to take over :) I WILL OWN THE CORE

Actually that seems to hard now, I will divert my arcs I WILL OWN A SEGMENT KIND OF CLOSE TO THE CORE

Nothing particularly special about the core, except planet density. Less likely to have planet links, but more planets will fall under your PD and regional governments.
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Chenier

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1434: November 30, 2011, 04:05:25 AM »
Only thing special in the core are planets I plan to take over :) I WILL OWN THE CORE

Actually that seems to hard now, I will divert my arcs I WILL OWN A SEGMENT KIND OF CLOSE TO THE CORE

Nothing particularly special about the core, except planet density. Less likely to have planet links, but more planets will fall under your PD and regional governments.

I'd rather have the fringe worlds: no flank.
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De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1435: November 30, 2011, 04:07:38 AM »
I'd rather have the fringe worlds: no flank.

But longer distances between planets to defend. Take a look at the core, now imagine that every planet there has PD and Long Range Sensors. How difficult would it be to find space within PD protected space not covered by sensors? How many PDS are likely to be able to target anyone location? If you want to turtle up area's near the core are the way to go. Of course it takes months to reach it so that is a set back.
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Chenier

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1436: November 30, 2011, 04:08:38 AM »
But longer distances between planets to defend. Take a look at the core, now imagine that every planet there has PD and Long Range Sensors. How difficult would it be to find space within PD protected space not covered by sensors? How many PDS are likely to be able to target anyone location? If you want to turtle up area's near the core are the way to go. Of course it takes months to reach it so that is a set back.

Yea, but no resource links.

The best defense is simply not having any neighbors.
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De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1437: November 30, 2011, 04:16:47 AM »
Yea, but no resource links.

The best defense is simply not having any neighbors.

Resource links are nice, but only to a point. With the resources I have on some planets, even if 2 or 3 planets are linked the fleet I can build will outstrip the planets ability to manage upkeep. I much prefer to build more modest fleets (50-100 battleships with some blackbirds) from many planets then to centre my ship building on one planet. Resource links can also be a weakness, I have on a couple of occasions TO'd a central planet in a resource web, and then stolen the enemies resources from his planets.

The way the new player placement code works, one you colonise an area, new players are bound to show up there as well, so its hard to have no neighbours.
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Chenier

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1438: November 30, 2011, 04:28:18 AM »
Resource links are nice, but only to a point. With the resources I have on some planets, even if 2 or 3 planets are linked the fleet I can build will outstrip the planets ability to manage upkeep. I much prefer to build more modest fleets (50-100 battleships with some blackbirds) from many planets then to centre my ship building on one planet. Resource links can also be a weakness, I have on a couple of occasions TO'd a central planet in a resource web, and then stolen the enemies resources from his planets.

The way the new player placement code works, one you colonise an area, new players are bound to show up there as well, so its hard to have no neighbours.

Except that there are no planets for him to spawn on.

I figure I'll probably send a colonization mission to one of the spiral's edges next week or in a few after that. If I can send 1 5-arc fleet and 15 1-arc fleets all at the same time, they'll pretty much all arrive at the same time allowing me to colonize that whole space. I can also send in a few military fleets to crush any newbie who starts nearby before the colonies can start producing themselves.

You argue on the use of the PDs, but I'll admit to not even knowing how they work. Could you explain to me how they work?

Also, how the hell do taxes work? I can't find anything anywhere which says the pros and cons of high taxes vs. low taxes.

Edit: as for density, the edge is actually 100000x more dense than where I started. I just checked.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 04:36:17 AM by Chénier »
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De-Legro

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Re: Dave's Galaxy
« Reply #1439: November 30, 2011, 04:41:29 AM »
Except that there are no planets for him to spawn on.

I figure I'll probably send a colonization mission to one of the spiral's edges next week or in a few after that. If I can send 1 5-arc fleet and 15 1-arc fleets all at the same time, they'll pretty much all arrive at the same time allowing me to colonize that whole space. I can also send in a few military fleets to crush any newbie who starts nearby before the colonies can start producing themselves.

You argue on the use of the PDs, but I'll admit to not even knowing how they work. Could you explain to me how they work?

Also, how the hell do taxes work? I can't find anything anywhere which says the pros and cons of high taxes vs. low taxes.

Edit: as for density, the edge is actually 100000x more dense than where I started. I just checked.

PD set up a ring around your planets, if you look at Vellos or Toms area you will see them, they are the large dotted rings. Any enemy fleet that moves within that ring and is spot able from sensors (fleet or planet based) will be targeted and shot at every turn. Use to be a 20% chance for the destruction of each ship, but Dave changed things recently so they are stronger closer to the planet they originate on. Just to give you an idea, I had on fleet of 300 cruisers show up in my space, within the targeting space of 3 PD. I killed 150 of them in one turn. Best thing is the damage to their fleet occurs with no possible retaliation.

High taxes lower your production rate of goods. Most people don't find this significant and run 20% tax, I don't particularly care and run the default 7% so I don't need to waste time changing it. The other factor is that upkeep of facilities is based on GDP, so increasing that tax rate increases the upkeep you owe, but you usually end up with a positive balance from any increase.
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