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From the Rulers channel on Discord:
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 11:40 AM
For transparency because the DEV's do not play in the game:
Out-of-Character from Glynkar Plaraveen
Message sent to the rulers of Beluaterra (9 recipients) - 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
For those who do not use the Discord channels:
VITA
"So...what would people think if we created a mechanic similar to penalties for failed elections, no gov office held, anarchy et cetera whereby if a realm had less than X nobles for X period of time, the realm would be made rogue (each day of X time-period having a warning message)? If the realm goes over the minimum noble requirement, the timer is reset."
"So, for example, what I'm specifically thinking is
If udner 10 nobles (or 5 on Colonies), you get 60 days to find a solution, or the realm is rogued on day 60. if a realm say gets 10 nobles for a week, and then goes back under 10, they restart at the full 60 days."
I find this very disheartening as it would basically see the end of Caelint 8, Angmar 8, Grehkia 8, Gotland 10, Ar Agyr 12, Nothoi 13.
So it would likely be better if all of the central realms decided to fold and join Thalmarkin or one of the Obean realms.
Any new members that join the Discord are usually advised that joining Thal or Obeah is the best choice.
Then we could all yell at each other from opposite ends of the map while sharing religious RP's. Good times.
Harold Miller
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 11:48 AM
From what I understand, after talking to a few people, this is an idea, not a certainty.
That being said, I personally would like to respectfully disagree. I believe that the variety of realms give players different ways to play their characters, and also make complicated, multi front battle possible.
There's merit to the comment on "dead" realms being terrible for player retention. That's valid. But perhaps rogueing the realm isn't the only solution. Maybe we put that activity onus on the ruler. We are responsible for the fun. It's a SOB in Thal to keep them entertained, and it takes work on my part. But I'm doing it. And it's working. Rulers, within reason, should be responsible for maintaining a certain level of activity. The only measurable metric for that would be sent letters I suppose. Putting a quota on it sounds like a horrible idea, but an initiative to increase activity, if only by TALKING, might help.
We all agree we have activity issues in plenty of places. There has to be more than one solution. One that doesn't see cultures that people care about removed only because of low noble count. We might be able to find other ways to accomplish this
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 11:55 AM
I understand that new players need some activity to gain their interest. But there are MANY players that just do not have the time or "will/want" to sit around typing letters every day all the time. We all come to this game for different reasons. Should the players that don't want to spend hours each day writing RP's be punished for their level of play?
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 11:55 AM
No, I don't think so.
But as rulers, there's another level of responsibility to the game and the players within your realm.
I'm just trying to find another solution that doesn't involve rogueing realms like this
I'm with ya
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 11:57 AM
Currently the only real executable conflict on BT involves 5 of the 6 realms that would be rogued with this idea.
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 11:57 AM
Yep.. and that stinks
Could remove the distance caps I guess, or greatly soften them
But then it basically becomes SI
The small pockets of civilization all over, in the midst of invasion, is part of BT
I think the flavor, which the multitude of realms create, is very very important to the survival of the game on that continent
Abstract | Foote FamilyLast Thursday at 12:02 PM
3 realms would be affected if this idea was implemented, not 6. The number given was those that had less than 10 nobles.
Also, @Vita` , you wanted feedback so see above if you haven't already.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 12:05 PM
Sadly Vita is of the opinion that small realms have nothing to offer the game.
The current actionable conflict on BT was started by two of the smallest realms on the continent
Vita`Last Thursday at 12:13 PM
What I find disheartening is the completely uncharitable interpretations of everything for no purpose other than to further divide the community. Nothing will change if we can't work together. BTW, developers do play the game. I'll answer more later when I don't feel so disheartened by assuming the worst of each other's intentions.
LancasterLast Thursday at 12:14 PM
The fact that small realms CAN contribute to the game overall doesn't mean that they all do
Generally, they trend to be quiet, isolationist. If I wasn't pushing some of the members of Fallangard to leave our borders, we probably never would
GreybrookLast Thursday at 12:25 PM
This is kind of why I am glad to see war in Dwilight and localised conflict in BT - makes engagement that involves realms of all sizes or makes governments have to make decisions to merge etc
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 12:29 PM
Tried to be kind about it, and very constructive, Vita
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 12:51 PM
Well then I my point has merit. If the rulers foster fun and activity, however they need to, whether it be religion, battle, RP.. then we'll see activity. I think that even the isolationist realms, if given the push by a ruler, can have fun. Or get crushed by another realm.. self maintenance.
And, @Vita` and @Delvin Anaris I know that we don't know the full picture behind the coding and what's possible, what's not. And I personally respect that, and the work you all do. However this group, the rulers, have their fingers on the pulse of this game like no others. Socially, we have a very very good idea of what's happening, and why. I mean this with the utmost respect, and I hope my well meaning words are not misconstrued
I still don't have an answer to the issue, which I agree exists. But I think I'm on to something. Accountability for the rulers, regarding activity. I wouldn't be offended if you asked me to prove I was doing my job
Vita`Last Thursday at 1:18 PM
Okay, getting back to this...
Yes, its only an idea, not a certainty. Hence seeking feedback.
I think there's merit to the variety of realm's line.
I think you've noticed we have been trying to stress the gov responsibilities more recently. :wink: But Titans aren't going to start investigating realms like the Secret Police and if people don't report issues, issues linger. We've spent years trying to emphasize to rulers the need to address these issues and while some have, others have just sat there 'waiting'. Waiting doesn't fix things.
I'm open to solutions, absolutely, but I also fundamentally question if a culture is cared about if it cant attract enough nobility and they don't actually do anything to maintain or pass on the culture, if the culture is 'only' the memory of past times. That's not culture, thats history. History can become culture again, certainly, but by and large, its been quite unlikely in the last five years.
BattleMaster is a social game based upon interactions. While you're not expected to constantly write, there should be something written. Especially as a government player.
There are only 3 realms on BT that would, at current noble counts, be made rogue if this were implemented and they went 60 days without being above 10 nobles. There's an exception to the no mergers rule for a reason. And if it were implemented, and on day 57 one of the realms got its 10th noble, the timer would stop. And if they lost a noble and went back down to 9, they would start all over at 0. The proposal is that it would take two months of sustained, continually under 10 nobles (or 5 for colonies). Each day giving a warning to the realm, the same as the warning you get for having no one in a government office, or being in anarchy.
Removing or softening distance caps....would be a step backwards.
I think flavor is important, but that there isn't flavor if realms aren't actually engaging one another or themselves. The mere existence of realms is not flavor. You have to actually interact to have flavor.
Thanks Abstract.
No, I'm of hte opinion that small realms, more often than not, provide a terrible experience to the game, especially for a new player's introduction to BattleMaster. Also, the game was not designed to have such realms. Its a disease, not something to be preserved. Exceptions have and can exist, but much like two characters on an island, more often than not it makes the game more static and less dynamic.
You were Jitney, and I appreciate it.
I'll be considering yours and Left's arguments and how to address those concerns.
The problem is Jitney, not all rulers bother to give a push. And not all realms have the players available to dedicate to playing such a character.
I'm not sure why you're telling me this. I'm the one who made the #rulers channel to increase communication, came up with the TODO for the ingame ruler-admin channel, and has pushed for more ruler involvement in community decisions. That's the way the community used to operate and what I've been pushing to get us back towards.
I appreciate the effort you put into BM and while I wouldn't refer to it as a 'job' (hey, its a game, lighten up
), there are certain community responsibilities to playing a character in a government office. And I'm rather close to making an announcement that henceforth, dukes are included in the Government Rules too, since what a duke is now is not what a duke used to be when those rules were being formed. Anyway, accountability for rulers requires the community to uphold that accountablity. Everything comes down to community effort, to uphold accountability, atmosphere, rules, to cooperate to find solutions for hte playerbase decline et cetera.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 4:03 PM
Out-of-Character from Glynkar Plaraveen
Message sent to the rulers of Beluaterra (9 recipients) - just in
No need to redraw a new map.
Maybe have Atamara rise from the sinking with many of the former regions lost to the ocean bottom.
Maybe allow only immigration from another continent?
Maybe make this only available to members of another continent (BT shares the same original map).
If you move your character from the existing continent to the new continent, then you give up your right to a character on the old one.
Maybe pose this offer to the players on BT (in-game so that everyone has a say).
Would you be willing to emigrate your existing character to this new island and give up the existing island for the betterment of the game?
If the response is positive enough, it may be worth considering for several of the continents.
Realms could start with their existing capitals and maybe one or two rurals to keep it fed.
Voluntary relocation to a new continent?
Harold Miller
PeregrineLast Thursday at 5:39 PM
I agree that tiny realms are terrible for the game. Especially as a new player experience.
DupontLast Thursday at 5:43 PM
Yeah, I remember when I joined Nova as a new player with a load of other people. There was a big RP event for our arrival and we assumed that was what the game was like.
But no, it was just everyone being excited for a bunch of new players
Because players realise that new players need to feel like there's a lot going on. A tiny realm will instantly discourage a new player if they joined
Vita`Last Thursday at 6:03 PM
It used to be like that...
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 7:53 PM
@Peregrine you say that tiny realms are terrible for the game yet you are in Grehkia, one of the smallest realms on BT?
@Dupont and yet you stayed even when the RP action died down. Also a member of Swordfell, one of the smallest realms on Dwilight.
It seems to me that even the smallest of realms CAN have a draw for players.
I understand that many smaller realms do NOT appeal to everyone, but there are players who prefer a smaller realm.
I for one do not want 25-30 various RP's every turn requiring a reply.
To be honest, I have seen many RP's that I consider to be stupid, but hey, to each their own. If it works for some people and others are willing to go with it, power to them.
When was the last time that something exciting happened in say... Shattered Vales? I read discord fairly regular and don't recall anything exciting from one of the largest realms on BT.
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:07 PM
I agree with plaraveen here. Any realm can be fun. I was in eppy on my last time playing and ruled there for a bit. We had what, 7 nobles? And we had fun. We even drew in a new noble or two. We were active, because we created the activity. I created it. Player of Aurelius created it.
We can make ANY realm fun. I don't think I'd love OS because I like a balance between RP and battle. But it's there for people who do.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:09 PM
Exactly, your realm is as fun as you make it. If your realm is not the kind of fun you are looking for, then move to another realm. This is even stated in the game somewhere, if what you find is not what you expect, there are many more realms to find your fun in.
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:10 PM
Which means, unfortunately, that some of us aren't doing enough to create that fun for everyone
There are quiet realms that like the peace, and then there are dead realms. All it takes is one player though.. One person to ignite something. Usually the ruler can help that happen, or be that person.
Before we make any mechanical changes, perhaps a message to all rulers in the game appealing to exactly this.
While the govt rules are read, I think people lose touch with the creating fun aspect. And that's fair, to a point.. we're allowed to have periods of inactivity, even a rulers. But if the ruler just coasts and lets the realm down, something is wrong.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:15 PM
There aren't 25-30 various RPs every turn in any realm. There aren't even 25-30 various roleplays in a realm over a month's time.
There aren't even 25-30 roleplays in an island over a month's time.
oh. sorry. caveat. to realmwide channel.
