PAGE 2
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:07 PM
I agree with plaraveen here. Any realm can be fun. I was in eppy on my last time playing and ruled there for a bit. We had what, 7 nobles? And we had fun. We even drew in a new noble or two. We were active, because we created the activity. I created it. Player of Aurelius created it.
We can make ANY realm fun. I don't think I'd love OS because I like a balance between RP and battle. But it's there for people who do.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:09 PM
Exactly, your realm is as fun as you make it. If your realm is not the kind of fun you are looking for, then move to another realm. This is even stated in the game somewhere, if what you find is not what you expect, there are many more realms to find your fun in.
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:10 PM
Which means, unfortunately, that some of us aren't doing enough to create that fun for everyone
There are quiet realms that like the peace, and then there are dead realms. All it takes is one player though.. One person to ignite something. Usually the ruler can help that happen, or be that person.
Before we make any mechanical changes, perhaps a message to all rulers in the game appealing to exactly this.
While the govt rules are read, I think people lose touch with the creating fun aspect. And that's fair, to a point.. we're allowed to have periods of inactivity, even a rulers. But if the ruler just coasts and lets the realm down, something is wrong.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:15 PM
There aren't 25-30 various RPs every turn in any realm. There aren't even 25-30 various roleplays in a realm over a month's time.
There aren't even 25-30 roleplays in an island over a month's time.
oh. sorry. caveat. to realmwide channel.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:16 PM
As a player, I MAKE my own fun. As a ruler, I try to present opportunities to my realm mates to have fun. Sadly, I can not force people to have fun.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:16 PM
probably lots more to guilds, regions, other channels
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:16 PM
I think that was just an arbitrary argument about their preference that plaraveen was making
Not wanting a RP heavy experience
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:17 PM
My point is that the argument is extreme.
I doubt even OS has 25-30 roleplays every turn.
The choice isnt between realms with reasonable amounts of messages traffic and those with constant activity.
The problem are there are realms that can go without realmwide messages for over a week.
Its harder to make exciting things happen if players are spread out and isolated.
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:18 PM
That's not good. And their rulers should be talked to, imho
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:19 PM
Any realm can be fun. And any player can play two characters on an island as distinct characters. But that is not the rule, its the exception.
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:20 PM
Rulers need to learn to be the exception then, for a start. How we go about that is anyone's guess though..
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:20 PM
just recently, I recall several players apologizing for being behind in their responses to RP's of others. I play for the fun, not the responsibilities of needing to keep up with all the chatter. Thats just me, but that is OK if that is acceptable to others
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:20 PM
Yes, you should move to places where you are having more fun. Absolutely. But that isn't an excuse to allow dead realms to linger because a few players insist on holding the last few titles.
"Before we make any mechanical changes, perhaps a message to all rulers in the game appealing to exactly this."
:face_palm:
What have we been doing for the last four years?
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:21 PM
I don't know, I'm new on the ruler scene this time around and haven't heard anything
There's discord, but that's not covering everyone at all
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:22 PM
Being a small realm does not always imply no room for fun or inactivity of players. Just like a large realm does not mean the realm is fun or active.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:22 PM
"And that's fair, to a point.. we're allowed to have periods of inactivity, even a rulers. But if the ruler just coasts and lets the realm down, something is wrong." <--Yes, absolutely. But again, we're not going to go on witch hunts of rulers. That's not a positive playing atmosphere.
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:22 PM
Well
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:22 PM
Discord represents a very small number of players (the more active/RP ones specifically)
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:23 PM
It's between upsetting a large amount of the player base, including some active ones, or getting personal with a few rulers who, honestly, should not be surprised by dev contact. They're rulers.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:24 PM
The thing is
I've had talks with some rulers repeatedly over years
Who will tell me, 'oh yes, this is a problem'
'im working on it'
and nothing changes
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:26 PM
We want to help you guys, and help ourselves by reigniting this. I don't know much about the past and trends, etc. Idk what you've tried. But I want to help. And I have a lot of contact with active players. I know what they want. Everyone on this channel has that contact, that knowledge. We'll help you if we can.. Just keep listening to us, please. We're trying to help. I just feel like you're defending yourself Vita, and I know I want what you want, or what I think you want.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:27 PM
^^
jitney | BlueLast Thursday at 8:27 PM
I always felt like there was a pretty decent sized responsibility on me as a ruler. The game implied that, and the wiki. I took it seriously.. maybe some didn't, but give us a chance
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:27 PM
Yeah, absolutely.
That's what we keep trying to do.
But likewise, it doesn't feel reciprocated after such a period.
If we'd wanted to wipe realms out, we'd have done it when we sunk islands.
But I specifically advocated for more gradual, dynamic pressures to give realms and rulers opportunity to move.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:31 PM
People regularly complain about Madina and Nivemus, yet people still play in these realms. Rea recently went to Madina to stir up trouble. The players there were active enough to "repel" his attack on them. Complaining about what others are doing is not helping the game. If you feel those realms should be more active and are dying off, move to another realm and pursue a mission to wipe them from the map.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:33 PM
Is it playing to sit in the realm and not write one another?
Rea didn't bother to build proper support before stirring up trouble and managed to turn supporters against them
Much like when realms would try to do something different on Atamara and then got gangbanged because they rushed it too fast isntead of laying diplomatic groundwork.
IC solutions are not appropriate solutions to OOC issues plaguing BM.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:35 PM
I am not defending Madina, but complaining from afar and doing nothing about it is not productive either.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:37 PM
I would also say that I think Rea has sparked some sustained discussion in Madina
we'll see how long it lasts
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:39 PM
If all the players that have complained on Discord about Madina got together and actively pursued an action (war/diplomacy/...) against them, the players in Madina would need to get their !@#$ together or fall. I don't know the actual numbers, but I would guess that I have seen more than 10 different people say that Madina should merge/die/be wiped out. If thsoe ten people got together, Madina would change one way or the other.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:39 PM
yup, I agree
alas, I think they're spread out through other realms they enjoy.
But I would also say that pursuing those objectives ICly while fine, should not be limited to IC solutions. The issue is an OOC one of game enjoyability and new player retention, it should not be solved only via 'fight them IC'.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:41 PM
Complaining does not help, but the current situation in Madina allows lots of room for fun for others if they put the effort into its destruction.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:42 PM
or improvement.
im really not that concerned either way with whether the realms are destroyed or improved, so long as the overall experience improves. very agnostic on method. if we could recruit players to populate all the lands, that would be ideal. in lieu of that...if folks need to merge, destroy realms, switch realms, migrate realms, revitalize a realm et cetera....wahtever works. I do absolutely think there are too many realms on the islands for the current player count and we need less.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:43 PM
I understand the need to retain new players, but that should NOT be the basis of decisions that affet all of the existing players as well. Some of us have been playing for years and honestly, our needs should be considered as well.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:44 PM
They are. But not at the cost to new players, which may not be you, and may only be my perception, but is the perception I get from some older players, that their 'right' to play in a realm they love trumps new players being given a fair shot at being interested in BM.
I've gotten yelled at by newer players for implementing old features that were approved for older playesr long ago because 'we didnt get a say in this, no one told us it was happening'
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:47 PM
Well, some changes that haven;t been discussed for a long time could maybe use a quick note to existing players. Some of the recent changes from long ago have come as a surprise to many players. Can't recall specific example here, but recall recent complaints as you mention.
Vita`Last Thursday at 8:47 PM
Heck, I've even implemented old approved features that were championed by former players in the hopes it might attract them back to the game. :stuck_out_tongue:
yeah, we're not the best at roadmaps. better at announcements. which is more than what used to happen in BM. Again, something else I've pushed for, to help the players be more informed.
the irony of providing that helpful info is I get yelled at for them afterward :smile:
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 8:52 PM
Not complaining, but I was broadsided by the Wealth list when it was implemented. It is not really a problem, but it is something that I would have "fought against" had I had foreknowledge. I did not and I have not complained after the fact because there no sense in complaining about a done deal that no one else is concerned about.
A simple announcement a few days ahead of time would likely be much better accepted than surprise, the update yesterday included... :smiley:
Another thing I find slightly confusing and contradictory is that the DEVs seem to be pushing for larger realms but they are limiting alliances to smaller sizes.
LancasterLast Thursday at 9:03 PM
Two separate problems
One involves realms being more than quiet graveyards of people just logging in to follow orders, while the other is that we've basically re-enacted WWI with both recent wars. Half the world allied against the other half.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 9:07 PM
OK, but 40 nobles in a realm is not really any different than 40 nobles in an alliance when it comes to fighting a war.
LancasterLast Thursday at 9:10 PM
Its more than that, its about communication. Separate realms stifle communication and gameplay. Its why realm splits never work in the long run. One half of the realm always dies relatively quickly and just gets re-absorbed without a ton of effort
Even shared guildhouses only go so far.
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 9:17 PM
I am not up on Obeahan politics, but if I understand correctly, their split could lead to a war between former realm members. So splitting realms may not always be a bad thing. Depends on what and how the PLAYERS do with the split.
LancasterLast Thursday at 9:18 PM
sure, there's always initial interest and excitement. But what happens if the war doesn't happen, SV/Nova/Obia all sign a typical alliance
PlaraveenLast Thursday at 9:18 PM
The Circle of Fate on EC seems to do quite well for the northern realms.
That leads back to my original concern of rogueing smaller realms. Most of the central BT realms would be at risk leaving Thal in the north and Obean realms in the south. The small realms of Gotland and Caelint are the source ofthe current war involving 6 of the 10 realms on BT. Likely the obeahan realms would have jumped in on this war if they were not so far away
To be honest, several of us in the north tried to get them involved anyways.
I believe that OS even had their army embarked at one point and found themselves stuck at sea (bug) before they got too far. Then things changed in the south and they moved on to their own problems/concerns.
