Any way, that is all too subjective to go anywhere but at least I have voiced an aspect of the counter points that have been raging amongst realm members and other rulers, And I haven't even touched on the fact everything we thought we knew led us to think Vordul would join Thal making an even contest all in all. But again the supposed consequence of Thal's lack of any diplomatic consideration meant Vordul had to have the agency to reject the assumption they would just do as bid.
And I want to be clear in this that I
do not hold the rulers of the realms of Beluaterra responsible for what happened—if I had thought that anyone had engaged in conduct that was worthy of punishment, I would have either put forward a case to the Titans, or leveled that punishment myself.
The standards I have articulated are things that I had hoped people would adhere to previously, but which were not in any way explicitly articulated, and the only ones to blame for that are me and Vita.
Now they are stated openly, and I will be doing my best to help guide and teach people—and, if necessary, update the wording and clarify or even adjust the expectations if I find that what I have said thus far is too ambiguous, doesn't edge cases, or is even unrealistic in places.
3) Finally to my questions:
Where on the forum were the interpretations and implications of the Alliance Bloc outlined? Is there anything on the wiki? If so, please would you point them out. If not would this not be a desirable feature before starting to describe supposed players you believe the best of, of being abusive?
What practically happens if you are in an alliance bloc within size limits, but which then outgrows it?
I believe Gildre answered these two well.
Are treaties and embassies and diplomatic pledges not captured by an alliance all illegal now?
No, they are not illegal. However, if Realm A has a treaty with Realm B saying "We will ally if either of us is attacked," and Realm B gets themselves into an alliance bloc that reaches the limit and is then attacked, they will not be able to ally with Realm A. (And I realize that that was a bit confusingly stated, so if it doesn't make sense, let me know.)
How exactly are we supposed to make any sense of favourable relations/histories we cannot fit in an alliance bloc based on this new harsh interpretation? For my realm we owe existence to Nothoi granting us a city, and built strong Daishi ties. To ignore their plight a second time would piss on that friendship/history but at various stages we were too big to ally. Similarly my realm owe a debt to Ar Agyr, if there are no circumstances that is allowed to be repayed through even defensive action how is that anything other than cutting diplomacy out of the game?
Can you clarify this for me? It sounds like you're saying that SV was unable to make an alliance with
just Nothoi—with neither realm having any other alliances active—due to the restrictions.
If that's the case—that there are multiple realms on BT that can't (or can barely) form any alliances—then we may indeed need to re-examine the specific limits involved with the alliance bloc limits.
However, if I'm misunderstanding, and what you're saying is that one or more of these realms had other alliances, and adding an alliance with another realm would have pushed you over the limit...then what I would strongly advocate for is a shift in how Alliance is seen (which might be what you're saying in your next paragraph? I'm afraid I'm a bit unclear on your intent there, too). And I recognize that this is asking a lot, but it is something that we've been quietly pushing for for years, due to exactly the kinds of shenanigans that led to the alliance bloc restrictions in the first place (and, earlier, led to the sinking of Atamara):
"Friends" and "allies" don't have to mean the same thing. "Friends" is more of a cultural tie, something that might imply you would ally with them, but more importantly speaks to a deeper bond with another realm. "Allies" means something very specific and 100% military: "If my realm and my ally's realm have troops in a region, and one of us takes the battlefield as the defender, the other will join in."
And I would be more than happy to start a discussion as to whether there should be a completely-non-military set of "cultural relations" between realms that the game keeps track of, so that you could retain that information and make it easily available for new players and people across the continent—or even across the game—without having it be bound up in specific military terminology and mechanical benefits and detriments.
I hope that this answers your questions, and shows you something of my position on the issues raised.
