For the similarities to the Thal Caelint war, we actually weren't strong at the start of that. We got strong during it as we used it as a plus point for our realm.
I don't mean to be picky here, but it was actually the "GOTLAND vs. CAELINT" war. A very
evenly matched war between two boring little realms that may have helped either or both with recruitment and or fun for their tiny realms. Unitl Thal forced its way in.
If I recall correctly, at (at least) one point both Gotland and Caelint wanted out of the war due to the actual battles being fought on their lands and both realms were suffering. The war, of course, did not end until the largest realm (Thalmarkin) decided that it had had its fill of the war. And since there is no longer a Gotland or a Caelint, the only real winner in that war was Thalmarkin.
Thal did not grow in numbers due to real world recruitment, we grew in numbers because we accepted everyone and we accommodated everyone. Mordok was refused by every realm, we took them in. VS was banned en masse by Nova, we took them in. Thal accepts everyone and allows them to be the characters they want to be and works with that, rather than against it.
OK, Thal was accepting of anyone regardless of their previous history, I will give you that point. But, at that time, anyone who asked on DISCORD about advice for joining a realm on BT, Obeah realm(s) and Thalmarkin were the "goto" advice that was given. I have not seen this so much in recent times, but it was the case then.
You mention the "unofficial alliance block" of SV and Nothoi (and now include Irondale), as being a problem to prevent/influence war on the continent. This was not the case when the Gotland/Caelint conflict was ongoing. For whatever reason(s) SV was not there during that conflict. It was more likely Thal's continuing actions of "bullying" that drew them into this most recent conflict. After seeing Thal essentially destroy/damage "inflict their will" over the entire northern part of BT, maybe SV decided enough was enough and decided to intervene? I can not say for sure, but seems quite likely to me. OR maybe they just "used it as a plus point for their realm to help it grow and get strong".
For the comparison to the Grehkia attack, I can see the issues you have with it, but there is a distinction to be made here. That was multiple realms vs Thal. At the time, we could handle that. But the realm had 6 nobles, there isn't a war on the continent they could have gotten in that wouldn't have been one sided. We actually pushed for them to make the merge into Caelint and the whole war took place without a major battle.
I was not there for this, but I ask you this "what choice did they have?" I would think they really had no choice. Thal had, by that time, practically decimated every realm in the area that could have offered Gerhkia any type of assistance.
I never believed Thal would be destroyed, that isn't what I was worried about.
I was worried that Thal was the "mixer upper" of the continent. If Thal is pushed into that top right corner again, and weakened to a point that it can't start wars, can't do it's pushing... what will actually happen? When I joint Thal initially, the entire continent was at peace and every realm but OS was silent. You may not like Thal pushing it's weight around, but Irondale is a much better realm (game health wise) than Angmar, Grehkia, Gotland and Caelint were. Would that have occurred if a realm didn't push it?
If Thal is to either die, or be weakened to a point where it cannot be the antagonist anymore, then all that is left is a group of realms that are federated unofficially and have proven that they can and will attack in a large group and are capable of downing any foe. No one will declare war on any of you. Any war you declare you will win. That is not healthy from a game point of view.
SELF IMPORTANCE. Without the actions of Thalmarkin's players the entire continent of BT would not be any fun for anyone?
We (Thal) made the continent fun for everyone. Without us (Thal) you would all be bored. "That is not healthy from a game point of view."
If the players in Thal think so much of themselves (and I do agree that there are many "good/exciting/engaging" players in Thal), would it not be "more healthy" to have disbanded Thalmarkin and spread those players throughout the other realms on the continent so as to drive more activity throughout the entire continent?
One of the first things I did when I noticed how strong Thal was, was to start offending allies. Ultimately detrimental if we wanted to try win the game, but a realm that had at the time 50 nobles, having an ally always backing us up bringing our total count to like 70... just wouldn't be fun. Thal has a fair few players that like the war game, they want wars to fight, not stomps. I am sure your realms are similar.
You are right, it was not any fun, but there were those in Thal during the Gotland vs Caelint war that seemed to be having fun from what I recall of the letters that came out at the time. So in an effort to help "equalize" the sides, you pushed your allies away by offending them. Knowing full well that you had already meddled and aggravated pretty much every other realm on the continent.
And then you are
surprised when suddenly most of the continent wants a piece of Thal and you now have no allies to help back you up??? What did you really expect? Maybe it would have been a better idea to keep your allies close and ask them to not interfere unless needed their help to defend your realm... This is what I did in Caelint. I asked my allies to
not interfere in our Gotland incident until it became clear that both Thalmarkin and AA were not willing to stay out of the conflict.
And finally, this isn't just a BT thing.
The Northern alliance on EC is an issue too.
I agree. Consider this though:
I have not played a noble on EC for a while now either, but when I was there, I know for a fact that the war could have been ended at the time by the "south" admitting defeat and giving up ONE city (Perdan) to end the war.
War over.
What has held the north together for so long? I suspect that the biggest factor holding the north together is the war with the south.
Without this war to solidify relations, I suspect that the north would quickly turn on each other for any number of reasons.
Sometimes, the best way to "win" is to admit defeat.
Realms like Sirion, who actually do have the fighting nobles, are unchallenged because they have a 3 realm thick buffer state... that's an issue for both the southern players who are opposed by them, and for the actual enjoyment of the Sirion nobles. They have to play for weeks of just movement to be able to get a battle. No battle ever carries any risk whatsoever. Their regions are never at risk. That's... boring for everyone involved.
Until recently, you could have replaced the name "Sirion" with the name "Thalmarkin".
The only real difference being the side that you have chosen for your characters.
I hope this helps give you a clearer picture of the other side.
