Worldbuilding - BattleMaster at its best

[Morningstar]

Ahee. So I'm starting to figure out the part about people trying to "fix" me.  "Go start things up and see if you get any interest", right?

Welcome to this thread.  Where the original post ended "So... who wants to build a world together?"  It's working already, isn't it?

Could it come to conclusion that none of described extremes is good, but good balance between "strategy" and "rp"-ing is what can bring quality of gameplay?

Yes, in terms of "the perfect game", this is absolutely true.  But when it plays out, the games that try to cater to all styles end up muddling around in mediocrity with all of them.  As I mentioned before, the game has to be a simulation.  The various player styles pulling it gamist or narrativist is to be expected, but knowing it's virtually impossible to completely please them all is fairly important.

And look, I know the value of "winning" (no Charlie Sheen joke intended... until just now).  With my old account, I would sometimes, just for fun, direct some of my more "narrative" action just so I could hit another more elusive point of fame.  I certainly love(d) me some tactical battles, as should be clear in my recent suggestions for combat features.  But take the "game" out of the "story" and I would still survive.  For others, taking the "story" out of the game would be just fine.  That's just the way people are wired.

I've been working on some changes that should return more narrative to the game for a long time now.

Unfortunately, over the years the BM codebase has become a pretty horrible mess. We're working on cleaning that up now, which is a requirement for some of the more interesting changes to actually ever be finished.

Awesome.  I still don't know how you've managed to balance everything all these years, but I salute you.  I tracked down my old Titan resignation email because I felt like I shared something similar then.  It still seems to hold true now: "Never lose sight of what originally made it so appealing.  It wasn't the features or the functionality.  It was the feeling of a close-knit community.  Continue to make that an integral part of the game and it can only get better."

I'm not the biggest codemonkey, but if there's anything I might be able to do to help, just yell.

[Stue (DC)]

i was not thinking about some ideal mix of two ingredients, but of any mix - whenever one of component misses, that is what stalls game.

if so-called strategists (which often became ugly name for everyone who put emphasis on team work and cooperation) mercilessly push their button with no care for developing their character storyline and flavor, that is bad.

you stated opinion that mixture should be on interplayer level, so good mix of strict strategist and strict rp-ers would make fun, while i never saw it in reality - on contrary that would more likely be double-stall. every player has to use at least on minimal level of style which he does not prefer.

also, if so-called rp-ers ignore in game events and just send their overly long lyrical impression, that is also bad.

it's pity when rp-ing potential is measured by length of green letters - i feel people should develop their characters as actors in play, where stylish verbosity should not be major criteria, not to mention those whose english skills are limited (as myself, for instance).

it is also pretty apparent that without in-game events rp-ing attempts are doomed, lyrical escapades without any dramatical moment simply cannot hold for long.

if you force "button-pressers" to send long letters, or deprive them of their basic buttons, that could be only scenario worse than overall silence in my opinion.

though there are examples where too much buttons kill rp, like too adjustable realm elections options. major political changes in way of changing government system through rebellion would always have great potential for rp, while we have pretty sterile rulers buttons instead.

i could present some more examples where in my opinion game mech issues directly affect rp-ing, but i fear it will go away from main subject.

[Morningstar]

I completely agree with pretty much everything you said.  I'm definitely not one of the purists out there.  I'm just looking for some balance.  And I definitely agree you can't force people to be something that they're not.  Subtle (or not so subtle) nudging is sometimes appropriate to get them to think outside their own bubbles though.  After all, the premise of this whole thing is to be a group of friends playing a game together, right?  You can't play to the exclusion of someone just because their style of play isn't like yours or it's not very "together".

[egamma]

I think a major change in the game is that the playerbase has aged. The oldest are now 10 years older than when they started--even those like me from 2007, are 4 years older. We've married, had kids, graduated highschool and/or college, gotten a job, etc. So we don't have a lot of time to write or even read long narratives--but we still love battlemaster, and so we become buttonpushers.

[Morningstar]

Could very well be. Or the same situation happened and so those people moved on from the game entirely.  I know that was my deal.

[JPierreD]

Tell me, Morningstar, do you plan to start a free-form RP of an entirely new world, or a project in an existing one?

I think I'd participate in the first, and if it was in Dwilight in the second too.

I must confess that the simulationist/narrativist separation does seem a little artificial to me, though. I can be considered a heavy simulationist (see the Dwilight Anthropology Project in Dwilight Sub-Forum), but no simulation I plan has itself for objective. It's supposed to be a tool, a not-completely-blank page for narratives to happen. A setting.

[Morningstar]

And that's just what I'm trying to get at (I think).  Nobody's a purist in any of the 3 categories.  Or if they really are, they find they have nobody else to play with.

I'm open to all sorts of ideas.  New map (we do, after all, have a few new map projects going on), old unused map (someone mentioned rediscovering the South Island), or a tweaking of the current map (FEI is a modified EI, for example).

We'd have to look long and hard at a project in an existing world, because it would all be contingent on what's already been established (which there's no guarantee we could know) and would change based on what happens parallel to the project in the game itself.  It's not an impossible endeavor, but it would be tricky.  Personally, I think I'd rather start fresh, but I could be convinced otherwise.

[Anaris]

And that's just what I'm trying to get at (I think).  Nobody's a purist in any of the 3 categories.  Or if they really are, they find they have nobody else to play with.

I'm open to all sorts of ideas.  New map (we do, after all, have a few new map projects going on), old unused map (someone mentioned rediscovering the South Island), or a tweaking of the current map (FEI is a modified EI, for example).

I would deeply love to have a BM map—even if not one that were going to be used for the game in the foreseeable future—that was designed sensibly, with cities centering areas that the city can hold and protect, and strongholds blocking chokepoints.  I would be willing to join in on such an endeavour for that alone.

[Bedwyr]

I would deeply love to have a BM map—even if not one that were going to be used for the game in the foreseeable future—that was designed sensibly, with cities centering areas that the city can hold and protect, and strongholds blocking chokepoints.  I would be willing to join in on such an endeavour for that alone.

Mmmmm, strongholds at actual choke points...

[Zane]

I've played several forum-based freeform games with nothing but a map and a group of like-minded players.  It works quite well with the right group of players.

Count me in. :-)

[Zane]

I think a major change in the game is that the playerbase has aged. The oldest are now 10 years older than when they started--even those like me from 2007, are 4 years older. We've married, had kids, graduated highschool and/or college, gotten a job, etc. So we don't have a lot of time to write or even read long narratives--but we still love battlemaster, and so we become buttonpushers.

While I wouldn't go quite that far - I'm more than just a button-pusher - I did definitely scale back my participation.  I simply didn't have time to give the game the attention it deserved.  I paused all but one of my characters so I could spend what little time I had all on one.  Besides, anyone who's played in Outer Tilog knows that it's an addictively-unique sort of place, even on BM terms. I couldn't possibly give that up. :-) 

So many of us have too little time to do the game and its characters justice.  I love the game, I love the community. I think my BM account is older than just about any account I have on any service anywhere (except maybe my original Gmail account).  The fact that it's held my interest for close to 8 years is stunning given how little time I have to play online any more.

This idea of a freeform RP based in the BM/SM universe has definitely sparked my interest.  Enough so that I might even find reasons to make more time to play.

-Greg

[Revan]

I've been working on some changes that should return more narrative to the game for a long time now.

Unfortunately, over the years the BM codebase has become a pretty horrible mess. We're working on cleaning that up now, which is a requirement for some of the more interesting changes to actually ever be finished.

I keep seeing good news in random threads. Estate reform possibly by christmas. Other mysterious changes in the works. How will I ever free myself of this game if there's always something juicy and new coming along on the horizon? >.<

I think a major change in the game is that the playerbase has aged. The oldest are now 10 years older than when they started--even those like me from 2007, are 4 years older. We've married, had kids, graduated highschool and/or college, gotten a job, etc. So we don't have a lot of time to write or even read long narratives--but we still love battlemaster, and so we become buttonpushers.

I went through quite a long button-pushing phase myself but now I'm trying to do better. Anyone who feels the same, I implore you to peruse the Making Stuff Happen - A Rant thread. It's inspired me to get my arse in gear once more. If all us button-pushing veterans got our mojo back and started interacting again, showing the young'uns how it's done, maybe we can restore those better days we all remember.

[Chenier]

I would deeply love to have a BM map—even if not one that were going to be used for the game in the foreseeable future—that was designed sensibly, with cities centering areas that the city can hold and protect, and strongholds blocking chokepoints.  I would be willing to join in on such an endeavour for that alone.

Both me and Aarth, I believe, posted sample maps on the wiki, (I used the AoW editor, he used copy/paste, similar results). You could use one of these if you don't want an existing world.


Uhhhh, anyone can tell me what happened?

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/User:Ch%C3%A9nier/Submission

Edit: Damn! I used external hosting! My hard drive died out since, I lost the map.

[Anaris]

I keep seeing good news in random threads. Estate reform possibly by christmas. Other mysterious changes in the works. How will I ever free myself of this game if there's always something juicy and new coming along on the horizon? >.<

Uh-oh! He's figuring out our master plan!

[Lefanis]

Funnily enough, my page on the wiki was deleted too.. Luckily i found a link from my mail, for I had forgotten flickr username ad password 

http://flic.kr/p/5GjSYi