Dwilight Character Limit

[De-Legro]

One reason we lose people is they expect instant action—or instant chat.  I've seen new people send a message and leave 5 minutes later.

This is my experience as well. Battlemaster is closer to a PBEM game in terms of activity required compared to your standard web game. It is a niche game, their is no avoiding that issue. The main reason I'm given when new players leave is simply bored. As a new knight they often don't have the opportunity to engage in the politics and other factors which really make this game fun, they set up their estates, then wait for orders to click the travel button twice a day.

[Vellos]

The main reason I'm given when new players leave is simply bored. As a new knight they often don't have the opportunity to engage in the politics and other factors which really make this game fun, they set up their estates, then wait for orders to click the travel button twice a day.

Which is why non-mentor older characters need to step up and send private messages to new characters inviting them into guilds, religions, helping them find lords, or engaging them in conspiratorial activities.

New players are ready-made political allies. That is what players need to realize. It's not really a question of benevolence, but of self-interest for powerful nobles. That has generally been my approach in Terran, and we've had a lot of new players come through for a realm our size and age and make it into upper positions. Many then leave or pause later on, but we still get a good few months, and some stay. Current examples would be the Van Kaya family, the Ryngaar family, the Maldives family, the Somnius family, and others that are now gone.

Indeed, that is my own story. I joined and left after 3 days, then joined again a week later and stuck it out for a while. Got involved in a conspiracy in Sartania, got booted out. Randomly went to East Island. There found Paul Keithson, one of Marc J's characters, and that is basically why I stayed with Battlemaster, because an established noble took Hireshmont under his wing and gave him a role.

[Shenron]

New players are ready-made political allies. That is what players need to realize. It's not really a question of benevolence, but of self-interest for powerful nobles. That has generally been my approach in Terran, and we've had a lot of new players come through for a realm our size and age and make it into upper positions. Many then leave or pause later on, but we still get a good few months, and some stay. Current examples would be the Van Kaya family, the Ryngaar family, the Maldives family, the Somnius family, and others that are now gone.

I agree with this completely! Back in the day with old Shenron account, I used this techinque to get monstrous support in Giblot. Which let me do a lot of crazy things :)

Of course I lost my power pretty quickly back then. I'm naturally a troublemaker I think. I can't have significant power without messing with anyone. These days I play way more safely... Why is that?  :-\

But with the Dwilight Character Limit. It seems the problem we have is that the players on other continents are scared of depopulation. There was a comment that I found sufficiently annoying to go and find it.

Surely we should celebrate the small gains we make rather than make wishes for things that might cause unintended consequences like open talks about restricting other continents?

Unintended consequences of resricting continents? Well actually, if we are going to be so vehement of keeping Dwilight one character, then we should do the same with other continents. I think it's very much a matter of principle, if we are allowed two characters for all continents except for Dwilight, there should be a reason for why Dwilight is kept depleted of people. As it stands we do not really have an argument that has anything to do with Dwilight. In fact if we were operating on principle then Dwilight would be allowed more nobles since it is bigger.

I think the question is what will provide fun? I think Atamara could use a character drain. Nobody else thinks so? Dwilight clearly has so much potential with all the land it is not using up, why should we not balance things out?

If the decision to keep one character in Dwilight is final. Then lets restrict all continents. Then the game willl really balance itself  8)

[LilWolf]

I think the question is what will provide fun? I think Atamara could use a character drain. Nobody else thinks so? Dwilight clearly has so much potential with all the land it is not using up, why should we not balance things out?

If the decision to keep one character in Dwilight is final. Then lets restrict all continents. Then the game willl really balance itself  8)

A quick count on Atamara has it at under 600 active characters. I remember a time when that was closer to 1000. The Cagilan Empire is down to 91 noble characters when they've been to around 120 quite a lot of the time. Darka is down to 74 and that's just barely enough to keep the realm going. We can pretty much forget about doing anything interesting like starting a colony or take more land and looking at the other realms character count vs. region numbers they seem to be in pretty much the same situation. We'd need about 20 more characters to think about something like that for real.

Limiting people to one character per island just doesn't seem like a good idea at a time when there's pretty much a global shortage of characters on a lot of islands.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

What is so bad about Dwilight right now? The travel times have long ago been fixed, although some routes still require 30+ hours even when not in winter. The monsters have been present since the beginning, although it was lessened for a period in the past. Realms rise and fall, and that is all natural. Besides, some places are simply that wild, or "cursed".

[Indirik]

If the decision to keep one character in Dwilight is final. Then lets restrict all continents. Then the game willl really balance itself  8)

Why this obsession with all islands being the same? What's wrong with some islands being different than others. EI is smaller, AT is larger, FEI has more cities, Colonies is one turn a day, BT has invasions, and Dwilight is one-character-per-family. Each difference brings its own unique play experience.

For Dwilight, I really like the one-character limit. It provides a very unique experience that you can't get on any other island. You don't ever have to worry about some realm being propped up by double-up families, or two realms tied together inseparably by four families with one character in each realm, etc. That could be why politics on Dwilight is more fluid (from what I've seen) than almost any other island. Yes, the lack of nobles is unfortunate. But that's also part of the experience as well. Hopefully some of the estate changes coming down the pipe will help alleviate some of the problems that causes.

[Perth]

Indeed, I do not think anyone playing on Atamara can honestly say it needs a player drain.

Eston, at least, is terribly hurting for Nobles. We can hardly keep our regions maintained, that is half the reason the war with Coria was pointless. We were in the position to take the Duchy of Barad Falas, but it would have been impossible to do so without a large influx of nobles, either new or from other realms.

Colonies would be a nice idea also, especially with this large war against the Cagilan Empire, but seems like a dream scenario with our current Noble count. There has even been some OOC conversation in the realm about how to attract more new players. We have I think about 50 characters, when I can remember us having 70-80 not all that long ago.

[Vellos]

Moreover, part of the fun of Dwilight is the chronic wildlands and the feeling of being a remnant. You simply can't tame and settle all of Dwilight. Madina will gain new nobles by stripping them away from the north. Maroccidens gained new nobles by welcoming refugees from the east. Civilization rests on the edge of the knife: and it's fun that way!

[Sacha]

Indeed. Dwilight is the only place I never get bored of, and the only place a character of mine has stayed for his entire career.

[Calanar]

Moreover, part of the fun of Dwilight is the chronic wildlands and the feeling of being a remnant. You simply can't tame and settle all of Dwilight. Madina will gain new nobles by stripping them away from the north. Maroccidens gained new nobles by welcoming refugees from the east. Civilization rests on the edge of the knife: and it's fun that way!

Exactly! The other reason I feel Dwilight is good with 1 character is because it's a brand new continent. Kind of like the discovery of the Americas, and the Caribbean islands, people don't necessarily need to come out in droves and fill the land. It takes time and patience to ensure that these new realms are safe from the wandering threats in the world. It wasn't like these places were immediately populated.

Instead, we have a continent with cities, towns, and other things, and at the same time, where did they come from? What wiped them out before? Were these cities here when our nobles got there? We certainly didn't build them overnight. Perhaps Dwilight is the healed remains of the last Beluaterra? Who can say? I'd say take the one character and have fun. Take your advy and make breath-taking discoveries, and create new lore for BM unlike anything seen before.

If my characters weren't so invested in their realms, I'd start playing on Dwilight again...

[Chenier]

agreed, 1 character limit on all islands would be interesting. I maintain that one of the reason Dwilight IS fun is the low noble count to the land available, and the complete absence of the quiet 2nd characters who's only job is to prop up realm control.

Nah, let me bring all my 4 nobles to Beluaterra. That'll make my day. :P

[Shenron]

Indeed, I do not think anyone playing on Atamara can honestly say it needs a player drain.

I play on Atamara and I am honestly saying it needs a character drain. The difference is that your point of view is from top down. Your point of view is the same point of view as all the other rulers on Atamara and it's why the place has so little change. The view that "wow I'd like things to change a little but I want my realm to stay the same and grow bigger."

If you ask me: the Atamaran prole (so to speak), I would like to see character numbers drop because I want to see realms struggle to feed their regions and I want to see realms fall and squabble. It will make good fun (except for the rulers being toppled ;))

[Perth]

I play on Atamara and I am honestly saying it needs a character drain. The difference is that your point of view is from top down. Your point of view is the same point of view as all the other rulers on Atamara and it's why the place has so little change. The view that "wow I'd like things to change a little but I want my realm to stay the same and grow bigger."

If you ask me: the Atamaran prole (so to speak), I would like to see character numbers drop because I want to see realms struggle to feed their regions and I want to see realms fall and squabble. It will make good fun (except for the rulers being toppled ;))

I don't know; you may have a point, but I'm not totally convinced. Yes, I am a ruler, but have only been so for a couple months now and getting to this point took me three years of play in the realm at which I never achieved anything higher than Marshal of Count. Nevertheless, the biggest hindrance to player rotation in Eston at least, isn't that there has ever been too many nobles, it's been that with only one or two knights per region, no one ends of getting promoted because there is no one to take that knight's place.

That isn't to say that if things get severe enough with a lack of nobles things won't all crash down and things will get mixed up, obviously that happens too. But I don't think a general lack of nobles does anything good for a realm, only produces stagnation, in my experience.

[Perth]

Your point of view is the same point of view as all the other rulers on Atamara and it's why the place has so little change. The view that "wow I'd like things to change a little but I want my realm to stay the same and grow bigger."

Also, this isn't really true actually. Eston is plenty big, and unless we expand into Coria, most anything else is to far from the current capital.

What I want are a bunch of colony foundations. New realms throughout the continent, and indeed this is half the goal of the war versus Cagilan. However, with a lack of nobles, colonies are going to be something very hard to do.

[Shenron]

Also, this isn't really true actually. Eston is plenty big, and unless we expand into Coria, most anything else is to far from the current capital.

What I want are a bunch of colony foundations. New realms throughout the continent, and indeed this is half the goal of the war versus Cagilan. However, with a lack of nobles, colonies are going to be something very hard to do.

Colonies are difficult by definition, not just because of player under abundance. Was there a rapid move of colonies in 06? When Atamara was teeming with players. No. No there wasn't. There is nothing about having too much players that encourages colonies unless certain players make it so.

You know a change that would cause realms to naturally disintegrate.... I do! Reduce the number of players to a point where there is not enough nobles to support realms, and they will collapse, then we will have true change in Atamara  8)