New Estate System

[Tom]

BattleMaster is getting a New Estate System. Also read the page described changes to the tax system (with a nice flowchart).

Ask any questions not answered on the wiki page linked above here:

[Velax]

Any hints on what the soft incentive will be to stop lords having maximum size estates?

[Bael]

How are newly acquired regions (TO, exchange, revolt, etc.) handled, i.e. which duchy will they be assigned to?
How will current imperial regions be assigned to duchies?

(from the wiki)

I recommend they be assigned on geographical proximity.

[Draco Tanos]

What will this do to the secession system, either to form a new realm or defect to a neighboring realm?   Or even regions switching from one duchy to another?

[fodder]

Lords can change their region to another duchy and dukes can change their entire duchy to another realm as before. Regardless of diplomatic settings, this is a violation of the oath of fealty and will result in an automatic ban.

ban when flipping region to duchy outside of realm only, right?

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tax report.
um... should a knight be able to see all other knight's bits? too much transparency? then again.. i suppose you want it to create tension?

what's the difference between (vacant) and wildlands?

what is there to do in estates? do they still influence region stats? why would a lord want an estate if he can give it all away and just tax knights by equivalent amount?

[Solari]

I love how this makes knights "shoppers" on an estate market.  This is a great victory for the BM middle class.

[Indirik]

What will this do to the secession system, either to form a new realm or defect to a neighboring realm? Or even regions switching from one duchy to another?

No changes, really. Duchies will be able to secede and switch allegiance as always, with pretty much the same restrictions as before. Though I believe Tom mentioned the probability that a duchy must have a city/stronghold/townsland region in order to secede.

[Indirik]

what's the difference between (vacant) and wildlands?

Vacant estates are available for any random noble wandering by to claim as their personal estate.

Wild lands are lands that are not assigned to any estate, and thus are not available for nobles to claim.

So if a lord does not want additional knights, they can either assign all land to occupied estates, or leave all excess land as wild. Since estates can be arbitrarily created, destroyed, and re-sized at the lord's whim, this is easily done.

what is there to do in estates?

Nothing at this time. There are future plans to add things for knights to do.

do they still influence region stats?

No. Estates only affect the collection of gold.

why would a lord want an estate if he can give it all away and just tax knights by equivalent amount?

Perhaps he can't get enough knights to fill all the available land? Perhaps he just wants one? Also, there will be some additional incentives added that may make estates more desirable to have. These are not yet implemented, and may not be implemented for a while.

[Bael]

No. Estates only affect the collection of gold.

So what will influence control then? Just the normal active factors? (high taxes, starvation, looting, courts, courtiers).

[Revan]

New Estate System

Mouthwatering. Glorious. Bring it to stable soon please!

[Zakilevo]

Now we just need to wait until the new system gets implemented  :D

[Indirik]

So what will influence control then? Just the normal active factors? (high taxes, starvation, looting, courts, courtiers).

Yes. Basically you take the things that affect regions now, and remove all the bonuses/penalties caused by estates.

That's the way it is right now. There are future, long-range plans to add additional enhancements to estates that will allow estate holders to do things to change the way their estates affect the regions. But that won't come along any time soon.

[fodder]

Vacant estates are available for any random noble wandering by to claim as their personal estate.

Wild lands are lands that are not assigned to any estate, and thus are not available for nobles to claim.

So if a lord does not want additional knights, they can either assign all land to occupied estates, or leave all excess land as wild. Since estates can be arbitrarily created, destroyed, and re-sized at the lord's whim, this is easily done.

eh... they claim it.. and then you boot them out the same turn/next turn? it doesn't cost a thing to mess around with estates, does it?


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tax rate... you can't collect more tax from a region with higher tax rates any more?

sounds as if a region has X peasants and produces Y.. then that's it. you can divy it up how you want.. but won't get more out of it (until estates do something?)

[Nathan]

This seems a pretty nice system. Madina already has something like this in roleplay terms (in terms of power flow), so this just seems a natural way to do things to us.

I'm interested to know if there's going to be a way of hiding things from those higher up. So for example, if my Lord wanted to hide some of his/her gold and keep it for themselves, could they do that?

Also, what about trade income? Is it split the same way as it is now? Or will estates play some hand in how that income gets split up?

[cjnodell]

Region: Happyplace
Gold: 200
Food: 150
Max Estate size: 50%
Min Estate Size: 10%
Tax Rate: 10%
Lords Share: 10%

So, lets say I start off as Lord of Happyplace. I give myself a large estate of 50% (I am greedy). I give each of my two knights an estate of 25% I have full coverage and the region will generate 140 gold per week. 70 goes directly to me (%50). 35 goes to each of my knights (%25) and 3 of that  goes to me (32g per knight and 76g for me in total now). All expenses then come from my 76 gold (militia, buildings). Then I pay my dukes share of 25% (determined by the Duke). Is that 25% of my lords share (6g) or 25% of all my earnings (76g)?

Now one of my knights dies in glorious battle. His estate become vacant. Next taxes come along and instead of getting my 6g lords share I get 17g (%50 of the 35 gold it can produce). I get more gold but 18 gold has been lost in all.

Also, assuming I want a new knight I can reduce my estate to 30% and create a vacant estate of 20%. Any noble that comes to my region can claim this vacant estate (therefore being bound to me by oath) as long as this does not mess with the hierarchy. I then have a new knight. If tax day is coming and no one has claimed the estate I can take that 20% back to my estate and suffer no loss in gold?

Does all this similarly affect food production? If not, why? It would make sense to me that vacant estates and wild lands only produce 50% food...